Affordable graphics cards

[sechs]

nVidia doesn't ship cards. It doesn't even make the chips.

At least ATi ships cards, even if few buy them these days.

 

[Handruin]

What cards does ATI ship these days? I thought they were long out of that business.

 

[Fushigi]

Here are a few ATI branded cards.

 

[Stereodude]

Here are a few ATI branded cards.

Didn't ATI farm out their branded cards to Sparkle or someone?

 

[time]

So I bought 2 cards to play with, a fanless 4350 and a more gutsy 4850. I was planning on swapping them out, to compare speed and image quality, but apparently these two require different drivers? It dumped me back to VGA mode and wanted me to re-install the package, then did the same again when I swapped back.

The 4350 has 242 million transistors, the 4850 956 million. The 4350 has 80 shaders, the 4850 800. Why are you surprised that they need different drivers? The package is the installation source - not the actual installation. The driver is configured and installed from the package to suit the detected hardware.

nVidia's drivers seem to hold up much better to more exotic installs.

On what basis?

An otherwise stable system is crashing since I installed the ATI card. When will nVidia be shipping a card with HDMI audio?

Now this is the sort of comment that pisses me off. Clearly, either the card is faulty, your driver is corrupt or there's something wrong/incompatible with your configuration. While we're at it, which card and what brand/model? You didn't say.

I could just as easily say: I installed some nVidia card and now my system crashes (Implication: all nVidia cards are crap). When will ATI be shipping a card with PhysX?

Meanwhile, millions of people will happily use both ATI and nVidia products (with some compromises). Sheesh!

 

[Mercutio]

I refuse to believe that anyone with an nvidia card is actually happy. nvidia packages sorrow directly into semiconductors.

 

[Handruin]

I was actually thinking the same thing for people who own ATI cards. The only positive experience I've had with an ATI in a long time is the 3650 in my thinkpad. That ATI control center is horrid to do anything useful with and I don't trust the hardware.

 

[Handruin]

Here are a few ATI branded cards.

I had no idea they still made the actual cards. I thought they gave that up long ago...

 

[Mercutio]

I had no idea they still made the actual cards. I thought they gave that up long ago...

If you'll notice, those are all workstation-type cards.
They're probably still actually manufactured by Sapphire, though.

Anyway, I'd just like to point out that most of my systems are running on Intel integrated graphics. They're good enough for about 95% of what I use a computer to do.

 

[ddrueding]

The 4350 has 242 million transistors, the 4850 956 million. The 4350 has 80 shaders, the 4850 800. Why are you surprised that they need different drivers? The package is the installation source - not the actual installation. The driver is configured and installed from the package to suit the detected hardware.

nVidia is able to have a single download that handles driver installation for all their video cards.

Now this is the sort of comment that pisses me off. Clearly, either the card is faulty, your driver is corrupt or there's something wrong/incompatible with your configuration. While we're at it, which card and what brand/model? You didn't say.

I could just as easily say: I installed some nVidia card and now my system crashes (Implication: all nVidia cards are crap). When will ATI be shipping a card with PhysX?

Meanwhile, millions of people will happily use both ATI and nVidia products (with some compromises). Sheesh!

...except that I have some experience with computers. The system uses standard components and has, in the past, been home to an 8800GTS, 9800GT, and 250GTS. I then dropped in a Gigabyte 4350 and the crashing began. I swapped it out to a Gigabyte 4850 and the crashing continued. Is Gigabyte a poor-quality card? I already re-installed the driver package twice, and switching back to a 250GTS fixed the problem.

On top of that, when it is running, playing a 1080p .MKV video file manages to chew up the whole CPU and slideshow on me, when it didn't with the nVidia GPUs.

I'm not saying all ATI GPUs are crap. I'm not saying that through troubleshooting and more hardware I couldn't make it work. I'm just saying that before my life was happy, and becoming more GPU agnostic isn't worth it. Maybe ATI cards work better for the rest of the world, but I gave them two chances and a really friggin easy task (my wife doesn't play any games), and I can't afford to have her machine crash.

On an interesting note, it isn't actually a crash. The card just stops sending a video signal to any of the displays. The numlock key works, and I can ping the box, and a hard-reset brings it back.

 

[Fushigi]

I'd wonder if there were some nVidia driver turds that weren't flushed when it was uninstalled prior to the ATI install.

Personally, I've not had significant issue with either brand. But my sample size is insignificant compared to most on this forum. Right now I'm using ATI and see no reason to switch.

 

[mubs]

Is Gigabyte a poor-quality card?

Gigabyte video cards are shit. I base that on a sample size of one. I have PCI video cards that still work. The Gigabyte (ATI) AGP card died a couple of months into use, and I had a heck of a time convincing GB that it was bad; they kept shipping it back as is. They finally fixed it, but a few months later it has gotten so flaky that I just tossed it.

 

[ddrueding]

Gigabyte video cards are shit. I base that on a sample size of one. I have PCI video cards that still work. The Gigabyte (ATI) AGP card died a couple of months into use, and I had a heck of a time convincing GB that it was bad; they kept shipping it back as is. They finally fixed it, but a few months later it has gotten so flaky that I just tossed it.

Ah. I was actually asking semi-rhetorically, as I know (at least) that their nVidia cards are fine quality. They are actually my first choice as a mfgr, as their cooling options are better than most.

 

[Mercutio]

their cooling options are better than most.

I really, really think you need to step away from that crackpipe.

 

[ddrueding]

I really, really think you need to step away from that crackpipe.

How so? The 4850 I have here is running a copper Zalman flower thing stock.

 

[time]

nVidia is able to have a single download that handles driver installation for all their video cards.

So does ATI - except it's less than half the size. What's your point?

 

[time]

It's certainly interesting to reread this stuff after just one year; things really do change fast.

My reason for the resurrection is trying to work out where Intel's integrated CPU solution (i3/i5) sits amongst the discrete card solutions. For example, is it better, worse or about the same as an ATI 4350? How much better is a 5670 or 5750?

 

[Stereodude]

I think that all depends what you want to do with it.

 

[time]

Quad core i5/i7 don't have integrated graphics. So I'm wondering what an appropriate substitute is. And how much different to a low-mid range graphics adapter such as the 5670, that doesn't have any special power requirements.

 

[ddrueding]

My laptop has an i7 and a 512MB nVidia 3100M.

It seems to be comparable to my i5 750 at home for basic gaming.

 

[time]

Dave, the i5 750 is a quad-core - no graphics core. What do you mean?

 

[ddrueding]

Sorry. 670, not 750.

 

[ddrueding]

...and I just noticed they now sell a 680@3Ghz. I would be just a little richer if I hadn't seen that...

 

[Pradeep]

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/...al_Code_Names_of_Future_ATI_Radeon_Chips.html

Looks like a big refresh incoming around October.

 

[Mercutio]

... and just now the Radeon 5770 has returned to the land of realistic pricing and availability. I got a couple Sapphire cards for $140 apiece this week. Back in December retailers wanted $225 for them when MSRP was $150, just because of demand.

 

[Buck]

... and just now the Radeon 5770 has returned to the land of realistic pricing and availability. I got a couple Sapphire cards for $140 apiece this week. Back in December retailers wanted $225 for them when MSRP was $150, just because of demand.

I still think they're over priced . . . good performing graphics cards are all over priced.

 

[BingBangBop]

... and just now the Radeon 5770 has returned to the land of realistic pricing and availability. I got a couple Sapphire cards for $140 apiece this week. Back in December retailers wanted $225 for them when MSRP was $150, just because of demand.

Sudden large price drops are a more reliable indicator of the next generation of video cards coming out shortly than even the rumor mill. No manufacturer, distributor or, very large retailer wants to be stuck with an inventory of cards that can no longer compete with the new generation and they get advance warning.

 

[Mercutio]

Sudden large price drops are a more reliable indicator of the next generation of video cards coming out shortly than even the rumor mill.

I'm well aware. But I don't anticipate a huge change until ATI starts producing chips with a smaller manufacturing process, and I hear that's not coming until next year.

Regardless, the 5770 is probably the best deal going in gamer-quality graphics hardware right now.

 

[Pradeep]

... and just now the Radeon 5770 has returned to the land of realistic pricing and availability. I got a couple Sapphire cards for $140 apiece this week. Back in December retailers wanted $225 for them when MSRP was $150, just because of demand.

The 5770 is finally facing performance pressure from the nvidia GTX 460 @ $200. Of course with the refresh we will probably see a 6770 with 460 performance (nice to dream).

 

[BingBangBop]

I'm well aware. But I don't anticipate a huge change until ATI starts producing chips with a smaller manufacturing process, and I hear that's not coming until next year.

Regardless, the 5770 is probably the best deal going in gamer-quality graphics hardware right now.

I agree that the 5770 is the current cost effective optimum especially at $140.

It is my understanding from the rumor mill that AMD will be releasing the next generation of cards in Oct/Nov time frame. The 6770 in Oct. and a 6870 in Nov. I saw some preliminary numbers for the 6870 claiming that its single GPU would be faster than the dual GPU's in a 5970. It the time frame is correct it won't be long before there will be lots of reviews giving real numbers.

 

[Stereodude]

I just ordered a passively cooled 5570 for my HTPC. We'll see if this experiment with ATI/AMD ends as poorly as all the previous attempts. :arge:

 

[sechs]

Where is nVidia on this?

I'd never buy them, but I need their products to drive down prices. The 5xxx series card prices just aren't dropping as they age, and probably won't until the 6xxx come out from ATI, err, AMD.

 

[Pradeep]

I agree that the 5770 is the current cost effective optimum especially at $140.

It is my understanding from the rumor mill that AMD will be releasing the next generation of cards in Oct/Nov time frame. The 6770 in Oct. and a 6870 in Nov. I saw some preliminary numbers for the 6870 claiming that its single GPU would be faster than the dual GPU's in a 5970. It the time frame is correct it won't be long before there will be lots of reviews giving real numbers.

I'm expecting more like a 30% bump, double the performance doesn't seem possible. I look forward to being wrong though.

 

[BingBangBop]

I'm expecting more like a 30% bump, double the performance doesn't seem possible. I look forward to being wrong though.

I'm with you, I wouldn't expect a 100% increase either. I just reported what I read.

 

[Pradeep]

So rumor is the successor to the 5770 will be launched first in October, using 256bit GDDR5, and will be slightly faster than a GTX460. 58xx series to be updated in November.

Good news for us, bad news for nv. Only downside seems to be the 6770 may need two 6 pin power connectors attached (compared to one for the 5770).

Also, anyone for a passive 5770?

http://www.techpowerup.com/129488/Gigabyte_Intros_HD_5770_Silent_Cell_Graphics_Card.html

 

[Pradeep]

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1731544/nividia-drop-gtx-460-price

GTX460 to drop in price so soon after release....

 

[Stereodude]

Too bad they're not going to drop the power consumption along with the price.

 

[Pradeep]

As long as they remain quiet under load, I'm not too concerned.

 

[Stereodude]

In a shocking twist of events the ATI 5570 actually just worked out of the box. I installed Windows 7, loaded the drivers for the hardware, and got HDMI bitstreaming to work. No EDID issues and the video levels are right too. I've never had such a positive experience with an ATI produce before.

I also found out that my Pioneer Elite SC-05 can't apply DPIIx on top of DTS-MA HD audio.

 

[ddrueding]

I've never had such a positive experience with an ATI produce before.

Perhaps because it is now an AMD product?