Affordable graphics cards

time

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Can't find any useful graphics cards threads from the last year, so here's a new one.

My take on the status as at July 2009 is that AMD/ATI has the low-end/mid-range range sewn up, but nVidia is still a force to be reckoned with in the high-end. The solitary exception to that would be nVidia's 9600GT, which manages to outperform the ATI equivalents in one game anyway, while not actually sucking enough power to roast a turkey or two.

My picks:

As a realistic alternative to onboard graphics, consider the ATI HD4650, 512MB version costs $50. Yes, I realize the 4350 is even cheaper and more likely to have passive cooling, but it has only a quarter of the stream processors and half the memory bandwidth. Still better than the best IGA, but totally shaded by the 4650. NEVER has such amazing graphics power been anywhere near so cheap. The only fly in the ointment is the rapid trend towards widescreen monitors, specifically 16:9 panels with 1920x1080 pixels. These require nearly twice the video memory bandwidth of 1280x1024 to keep up.

The answer of course is the HD4670, 512MB version costs about $75. 25% more GPU power and double the memory bandwidth thanks to DDR3. For my money, this the best value graphics card on the planet. It's also the most performance you can shoehorn into a standard PCI-e slot without a separate power connector, so in theory, you can upgrade anything with this card.

But for those who want to play any game, nothing short of the HD4850 (512MB = $115) will suffice. Two and a half times as many stream processors and double the memory bandwidth again. In online reviews, the only chink in the armour is the game "Crysis".

From here you can go onto 4870 or the formidable 4890, use crossfire, or consider nVidia GTX 260/275/285 or even the awesome GTX 295 - but they're increasingly not affordable and power consumption goes through the roof.
 

time

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For a brief moment in time, there was also AMD's orphan, little HD4770. Very nearly the same performance as the 4850 but nearly 30% less power consumption, thanks to the 40nm process. A mere 80W TDP. Unfortunately, 40nm yields are poor, so it's become an orphan and effectively replaced with another hotter part.

I mention this because against all odds, I managed to snaffle one today!

:compress: :compress: :compress:
 

udaman

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Can't find any useful graphics cards threads from the last year, so here's a new one.

My take on the status as at July 2009 is that AMD/ATI has the low-end/mid-range range sewn up, but nVidia is still a force to be reckoned with in the high-end. The solitary exception to that would be nVidia's 9600GT, which manages to outperform the ATI equivalents in one game anyway, while not actually sucking enough power to roast a turkey or two.
.

That's because it's another one of those 'hidden' SF threads :D:alb:

How do I turn this system into a HTPC?
http://www.storageforum.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7558

check midway/later part
 

time

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Thanks, Udaman. You're right, I hadn't seen that - my eyes would have glazed over about two pages in.

I still think this thread may turn out to be useful to someone, especially if other members add their observations. Every time I come back to looking at graphics cards, it's a complete minefield that wastes heaps of time.
 

ddrueding

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I have a passive 4350 here with a native HDMI port that is destined for an HTPC somewhere. I've built several systems with the 4770, it is a great card and does everything well. 90% of my systems are GTX 285s or 295s.
 

time

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Ah yes, but can you buy a 4770 now? :grin:

Re the GTX series: the obvious application is 2560x1600, which I seem to recall you talking about some time back. Did you deploy the GTX295 in your racing simulators?
 

ddrueding

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Every time I try an ATI card in something complicated I'm unhappy. Both seem to manage a single card/single monitor config just fine.

The racing sims didn't go forward, but GTX295s do provide better image quality settings in some games even at 1920x1080.
 

time

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I was originally very anti-ATI, but I've been agnostic for quite a few years now. I came across an old post from 4 or 5 years ago where I was explaining to Tannin that ATI cards and drivers really did work these days.

I've been happy with mid to high-end offerings from both, but often seriously unhappy with the low-end stuff. The exception would be the integrated solutions - I feel that ATI has been good value there and superior to nVidia (let alone Intel). But I haven't looked properly at nVidia IGA for probably 18 months or more. The mobile chipset failures didn't help.
 

Santilli

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Time: I went with the 9600GT. Some good reading in there. Keep in mind ATI has a class action lawsuit against them. The class action suit is settled by pretty much you get a free ATI card if you bought one in the time period they advertized the cards worked for HD, since they didn't, IIRC.

In their favor: If you buy an ATI card, not from another maker, even if it's out of warranty, EVERYTIME I've had one fail, they sent me a new, better card.

GS
 

Mercutio

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At the moment, I'm not particularly happy with graphics cards. Period.

The high end is ridiculous for power and cooling needs.
The low end is... too low end.

And the crap in the middle often makes too damned much noise.

nVidia still puts shitty fans and insufficient heat sinks on its hardware.
ATI's HDMI support makes other sound hardware behave oddly under Vista.

There's no perfect hardware, but more than that, there isn't particularly even any hardware I want to buy.
 

time

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The ATI 4770 I scored works as well as the handful of reviews on the net suggest.

Given the minimal power requirements, the dual-slot cooling solution that came with this XFX model is ludicrous. About the only time I hear the blower fan is when the PC boots. After a couple of passes of 3Dmark, the card is not really too hot to touch.

So I suspect the 'single-slot' solution may be more sensible. This thing doesn't even raise a sweat.
 

time

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Actually, I'd guess the main reason nVidia is still outselling them is availability. Whenever ATI releases a new model, they always seem to sell out and then stock remains intermittent until the model is obsolete.

For instance, nVidia doesn't have anything to hold a candle to the 4770 I mentioned (power consumption or price), but thanks to low yields on the 40nm process, they're almost as rare as hen's teeth. ATI can't afford to move many more models to 40nm or they won't be able to guarantee supply of anything.

And then there's the whole nVidia fanboy thing, where conventional wisdom has been that nVidia is a safe bet for everyone. Obviously, that wisdom has lost some currency, although people still seem to look for an anemic nVidia IGA solution in laptops.

Apart from Merc's weird HDMI sound problems, I don't believe anyone here is likely to be troubled any more by serious problems with drivers from either ATI or nVidia. There's just no evidence for it.
 

ddrueding

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I used nothing but nVidia for the last 3 years or so, but recently was driven to ATI by nVidia's refusal to allow mirroring of the HDMI and DVI ports at 1920x1080; it just doesn't work.

So I bought 2 cards to play with, a fanless 4350 and a more gutsy 4850. I was planning on swapping them out, to compare speed and image quality, but apparently these two require different drivers? It dumped me back to VGA mode and wanted me to re-install the package, then did the same again when I swapped back.

Both also cause the same issue Merc is referring to, the on-GPU soundcard (for the HDMI) steals the rear channels from my existing card and will not give them back. I've caved on this and have an HDMI capable reciever coming, so I'll just do it the ATI way.

I also miss the PhysX support for CrazyMachines 2+ and Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2.

The 4770 I installed in a gift gaming box for a friend kicked ass, but that was the most basic install ever. One card, one screen, nothing fancy. nVidia's drivers seem to hold up much better to more exotic installs.
 

timwhit

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I hate the control panels for both ATI and nVidia cards. I just hate the nVidia control panel slightly less.
 

MaxBurn

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I used nothing but nVidia for the last 3 years or so, but recently was driven to ATI by nVidia's refusal to allow mirroring of the HDMI and DVI ports at 1920x1080; it just doesn't work.

Odd, I am doing exactly that and it worked in vista and win7 on a GTX260. What card did you have? The only thing that doesn't work is blue ray software that dumps because of a software check to see if there is more than one monitor displaying the content. So still not on the whole blueray bandwagon and still (not really) in search of a way to defeat this. DVD played in media player/center on a 47" 1080p monitor looks quite good to me.

Well, my experience is exactly the opposite. Glad to see someone is keeping ATI in business though. :cool:

Me too but not lately. My last ATI software experience was quite nice before the x1950xtx died. Was driving multi monitor, one HDMI 1080p and the other a TV through 1080i via component video. All worked good.
 

Fushigi

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I upgraded to the latest ATI Catalyst drivers a few days ago and an oddness has appeared. I have 2 monitors and both are in portrait orientation. Whenever I reboot, it remembers the orientation and remember "extend desktop" but forgets which monitor is defined to the left/right/above/below the other. So far it has yet to remember it correctly. This problem is new with 9.7.

I've created a profile, which I didn't have to do in the prior releases, in hopes that it will remember going forward.

I don't know when this appeared; I was last on 9.2 so I've skipped a few updates.
 

Stereodude

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I used nothing but nVidia for the last 3 years or so, but recently was driven to ATI by nVidia's refusal to allow mirroring of the HDMI and DVI ports at 1920x1080; it just doesn't work.
Huh? I can mirror 1920x1080 on my 7900GS between my Samsung TV (1080p) and my 24" monitor.
 

Stereodude

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Me too but not lately. My last ATI software experience was quite nice before the x1950xtx died. Was driving multi monitor, one HDMI 1080p and the other a TV through 1080i via component video. All worked good.
My last ATI experiment was a 4550 for my HTPC. At the time ATI didn't have a proper EDID parsing implementation in their drivers so I couldn't get any audio to my receiver. Supposedly more recent drivers have corrected this, but I'm not buying another one to find out and risk the restocking fee again. I'll wait for nVidia's new discrete cards with HDMI audio instead.
 

Mercutio

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Just to clarify my other comment:

My game system presently has a Radeon 4770 in it because the 4890x2 offered no performance boost in the game I play and, at least in the summertime, made the side of my case, six inches from my leg, intolerably hot.

I'm using the nVidia 8800GTX that I've had replaced three times in my HTPC, which is running Server 2008 and subject to "ATI HDMI weirdness issues", which are particularly bothersome since my setup doesn't support HDMI audio and nothing I do can actually make the HDMI audio output stay disabled.
 

Pradeep

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It is significantly more power-hungry than the 4770, but it is also a tiny bit faster. If power efficiency isn't at the top of your list, a 4850 at 90$ is a great bargain.

From what I understand the 4770s make significantly less noise from the cooling fan, which may be a consideration for you.
 

Handruin

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Thanks for the feedback on that card. I decided to hold off from buying. This is for a friend who wants basic gaming. The built-in ATI 1250 is pretty crappy. I gave her machine an ATI 1350 I had in my closet that plays the game she wanted and to hold her over for a little bit. I figure in the next 6 months there will be 2-3 new generations of GPUs to chose from.
 
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