iPhone syndrome

[Sol]

If you use end to end VOIP then you should be able to get better quality audio, but that relies on the cooperation of everyone you want to call or who wants to call you... The sooner telephone providers become data network providers with QOS that we can just run our own calls across however we want the better.

 

[LunarMist]

VOIP on one end and cell on the other often equals dropouts and latency.

 

[Mercutio]

The sooner telephone providers become data network providers with QOS that we can just run our own calls across however we want the better.

As I understand it, the phone companies are there now. They've adjusted their thinking from "circuits" to "packets" and the engineers doing the work do know what they're doing. QoS is hard. It needs to operate in both directions, and involves the cooperation not just of the communication end-points, but everyone in between. THAT is the limitation that service providers run in to, especially since no one has properly determined the legal status of Net Neutrality.

 

[Sol]

QoS is definitely hard, but I don't think it's an insurmountable one in the long term. And honestly I don't think it's anywhere near as big a problem as many people think it is. Sure if you have an ISP with a 50+:1 contention ratio and you're trying to make calls with wideband codecs and video you're going to have a problem. The simple solution is to tell that ISP to stick their crappy service where it fits and accept that an Internet connection that does everything you want well is going to cost more than 10 quid a month. I realize that this isn't always an option in the US, but until it is you're always going to have problems. For wireless (cell not 802.11) there may be more of a problem but if the network is constructed in such a way that the wireless bandwidth is the limiting factor, and available wireless bandwidth is distributed across devices evenly then it really should be up to the handset to ensure that it's not doing too many things at once while on a call, if there still isn't enough bandwidth for everyone to make calls then the limit is network topology and physics.

I guess what I mean is that QoS potentially makes life a lot easier (I.e. for the handset in the previous example) but you should be able to get by without it unless the network just isn't up to it, in which case improving the network comes above QoS on my list of fixes.

The real problem for service providers though is that they like being able to charge per minute for voice calls. The networks are, as you say, pretty much already packet based from end to end with only the link from your land-line to the local cabinet being analog. Once that becomes transparent the networks stand to make a lot less money. 1GB a month might cost more than we'd like but it probably costs less than 260+ minutes of calls and it almost certainly costs less than the equivalent in SMS messages. And if I'm at home or somewhere I have access to a cheaper Internet connection then it's even worse for network providers. The main VOIP protocol (SIP) doesn't even have a mechanism to bill people, and the ways people have come up with to do it are all pretty trivial to circumvent (Or cost a lot more to implement), the concept is flawed in much the same way as DRM is. If A and B have addresses on a network you don't control and can communicate with each other (the whole point) then you can't stop them exchanging addresses and cutting you out of the loop. (Nor can you stop 3rd parties undercutting you until the perceived value of a call is nothing)

Also network providers don't like to upgrade their networks...

Of course if the iPhone has taught us anything it's that people don't object to being controlled anywhere near as much as we'd like to think they would so maybe the networks will be fine for a good (or maybe bad) long time...

 

[LunarMist]

Whatever the technology, the bandwidth will always be too little. Quality will get worse. Customer service. What is that?

 

[Pradeep]

If one is really out in the middle of whoop whoop looks like a GlobalStar phone (more for land based or near shore) or Iridium (truly global with I'm assuming polar coverage) would be the way to go.

 

[Mercutio]

I believe the Iridium stuff is not maintained. Those satellites are eventually going to fall out of the sky without any replacement.

 

[Pradeep]

Apparently Iridium was brought out of bankruptcy and they have committed to building and launching more spares.

 

[timwhit]

The Iridium network was bought by Iridium Satellite LLC from Motorola who had invested the majority of the money to construct the network. According to that Wikipedia article they are planning on launching more satellite in 2014.

 

[mubs]

So after some time with the Droids here's my mini review:

Pros:

Great display (tho in full sunlight it could be better)
Fast and responsive (I can scroll on a pretty large web page, and it will continue to scroll for several seconds. This is with 2.0, 2.1 should improve things even further.
Google Maps and navigation. Just fantastic.
Keyboard - feels soft and vague at first but with practice it becomes second nature.

Cons:

Battery life is devastated by browsing etc. Mostly by the display actually. Coming from a charge every 4 days Moto razr it was a bit of a shock. But understandable. Might end up going with a spare battery for all day use.

Summary:

I have no hesitation in recommending the Droid at the $99 pricepoint. Only exception would be if you have large hands, you may have to zoom in one step more to avoid fat fingering links etc.

Looks like the Droid is being released here as the "Milestone", running Android 2.1. Price is ~ $615. Should I buy it ? It's cheaper than the HTC HD2 by $135!

 

[Mercutio]

The HD2 has a bigger screen. It's thinner, lighter and faster. The only thing that would make me consider that hardware would be the hard keyboard, but that's something I explicitly don't want for myself.

 

[LunarMist]

Iridium was saved by the US gov. for military pupose. My main complaint is that the signal is not always there and the rental is too expensive. The phone is not exactly tiny either.

 

[mubs]

The HD2 has a bigger screen. It's thinner, lighter and faster. The only thing that would make me consider that hardware would be the hard keyboard, but that's something I explicitly don't want for myself.

Yeah. I also read some reviews that say integration with MS Exchange isn't very good (a dealbreaker for me) and that the Contacts app is a joke (another dealbreaker). Methinks me'll wait and see.

 

[Pradeep]

If you need something now, then the Droid is a great option.

However, at a price of $600+ this truly is an investment rather than a free after rebate or 2 for $99 special.

In your case I would wait it out for a few months. Strong competition is doing wonders to the marketplace.

 

[MaxBurn]

Is there any phone that has GPS that is usable without a service contract? My ASUS pda is reminding me it is on its last legs.

Also want a decent screen and availible bookreader even if the books are only rtf or htm.

Able to make calls over wifi would be really nice too.

Really familiar with win mobile and like it at this point.

Funny how some stores won't talk to you when you want a used phone or no service contract.

 

[Stereodude]

Any phone that supports Google Maps, or are you looking for something more?

 

[time]

Nokia 5800 unlocked for $260.

The only negative about this phone is that it's Symbian rather than Android or Windows. Otherwise, it smashes iPhones into little pieces of apple - I know, my daughter's got one.

But don't take my word for it, check user ratings everywhere.

 

[Handruin]

So what you're saying is that it's a big heavy $260 brick? That sounds useful.

 

[Howell]

Competiton is good. Your daughter has which one?

 

[MaxBurn]

So google maps uses the GPS chip that is built in the phone? I wasn't sure about that but if I can find a phone compatibility list out there somewhere that would cinch that part of what I am looking for.

I take it the ipod touch don't have any GPS chip on board...

 

[Handruin]

No the ipod touch doesn't have a GPS chip inside. The iPhone 3G and 3GS have the A-GPS built inside and work with google maps and other mapping software (some paid, some free).

 

[Howell]

No the ipod touch doesn't have a GPS chip inside. The iPhone 3G and 3GS have the A-GPS built inside and work with google maps and other mapping software (some paid, some free).

Yeah and the phone understands what a phone number or address looks like and will convert it to a link and open the appropriate app if you click the link.

 

[MaxBurn]

Yuck, I was looking to load tomtom but apparently that is no longer available for win mobile in the US so that means I either need to learn something new or go apple. The window mount/GPS they have available works with ipod touch though.

Can someone with itunes loaded hit the link here and tell me what the tomtom app costs? If it is free but I have to get the speecial mount that isn't bad at all for $100 but I am thinking they ding you for the software app too?
http://www.apple.com/itunes/affiliates/download/

 

[Handruin]

Looks like the TomTom USA app is $59.99 just for the software (see screen capture). The $100 kit seems to be its own GPS receiver hardware in addition to mounting hardware. I also can't figure out if they ding you for the software in addition to the $100 kit. There is a free app for TomTom that can be downloaded which is labeled TomTom car kit tool. I'm reading the description and it says:

"Please note: the TomTom car kit tool does not provide turn-by-turn navigation. For TomTom turn-by-turn navigation you will need to purchase the TomTom navigation app."

 

[MaxBurn]

Thanks for the pictures, I'm traveling and I don't even have to ask to get the no you can't load itunes on the corporate laptop.

They do ding you for the software and car kit separately, so looking at $100 plus $70 for the US and Canada I have and use now. I guess optionally on an iphone the reviewers say it can use the built in GPS but reception wasn't the greatest but does get you out of that extra $100.

I wonder if they keep it up to date for free though, updates on GPS software can be pretty spendy too.

 

[Pradeep]

I'm assuming u are looking at a contract with an iphone? In which case a droid on verizon for $99 would give u google maps/navigation without the dicking around. BTW iphone 4.0 is set for announcement on Thursday so at least wait till then. Should be using the A4 processor like the ipad.

 

[Handruin]

For whatever it's worth, the map quest app is free on the iPhone and gives turn by turn voice commands. The google maps works fine on the iPhone but doesn't give turn by turn commands.

 

[timwhit]

I've heard future versions of Google Maps will give turn by turn voice directions. I just don't know when that will be released.

 

[Handruin]

The iPhone 4.0 is rumored to have multitasking Expose-style.

 

[MaxBurn]

I'm assuming u are looking at a contract with an iphone?

No do NOT want a wireless contract at this time. So basically that throws out any GPS software that needs a data plan to function. I am considering a phone without a contract but frankly ipod touch third gen 32/64gb is at the top of the list for me right now, primarily because I could do voip with it if I wanted.

As far as the apple lockdown non-open solution goes I think the only thing that was baring me in my head was the book reader, but it looks like I can convert txt, htm and rtf files to epub and import them through itunes/ibook without issue as long as they are drm free. Anyone doing that?

I saw news about the OS 4.0 update but nothing about a ipone 4. Hope it trickles down to the ipod touches, seems it will.

Frankly though this is a lot of money so option one on my list is still breaking out the small tools and see if I can fix some bad connections in my asus a696. The screen lock slide switch is worn out to the point where if you brush it the display turns off, plus there is a bad connection somewhere so if it it knocked it sometimes loses memory and acts like a hard reset, annoying but not a big deal as it doesn't lose data. I paid $435 for this thing back in September 07 and it use it for several hours every day so I guess you could say it has had a full life and I really haven't lost any money on the thing.

 

[Sol]

All recent Nokia phones can have the Nokia mapping app loaded on to them for free. It doesn't require a data connection for most things (Things like live traffic updates obviously do).

Voip on the iPod touch might be a bit dependent on what you want to do. If you just want to make calls then you're probably fine, but if you plan to receive them as well then you may be stuck with the choice of using the iPod or being able to get calls since there is no multitasking on the iPhone OS (And a notification based VOIP client would require a 3rd party service compatible with your VOIP provider to notify the iPod to start the VOIP app when a call was coming in). Maybe iPhone OS4 will fix this, guess we'll know tomorrow...

 

[time]

Competiton is good. Your daughter has which one?

The Nokia 5800.

I won't annoy Handruin by listing all the things it does better than an iPhone. Instead, I'll highlight the main reason people might prefer the iPhone: the different type of touchscreen.

The iPhone uses a capacitive system that only requires the presence of a finger, i.e. an extremely light touch. This is why, as Mercutio pointed out, it won't work with gloves.

The Nokia is a pressure system. You actually have to press when dragging, for example, which is where many people are likely to prefer the iPhone. Surprisingly however, it doesn't seem to affect typing. It also enables the additional options of the included plectrum or stylus, as well as gloves. The stylus allows handwriting recognition, which apparently is very good.

 

[Handruin]

You don't annoy me time. If you claim it does things better than the iPhone, then say what they are. My last comment to you was in the same general pointless format as you saying phone A smashes phone B into little pieces of apples. Neither comment had any redeeming value.

I argue in favor of the iPhone because lots of people have this hate towards it (both here and everywhere else) and make all sorts of exaggerations of how bad it is. I sometimes wonder if any of those people have spent more than 5 minutes using the phone. They probably can't get past their first initial impression that it's an Apple product on AT&T and since they've already said one or more bad things about it, they won't even give it a chance because it would hurt their pride to actually see the good features it does offer. I'm not at all claiming it is perfect or the best phone in the world. The phone does work well for me and I can see how it can work well for lots of people.

I searched around for some video reviews on the phone and if the phone you claim is like the one in this review I can already tell you the navigation and touch screen really won't cut it. Several times you can see the reviewer going back to repress a button because it either didn't receive the signal or the phone is very slow at loading menus. The sliding of menus also looks to be a pain because you have to reach for a scroll bar. That would drive me crazy from an ease of UI perspective. Being able to touch anywhere in the UI on an iPhone and drag to switch through menus is a very nice design. many times the reviewer tries to go to a home menu by pressing a button and just doesn't get there. The reviewer claims the pictures menu loads quickly, but honestly it looks slow to me in comparison to what I'm use to. I have hundreds of pictures on my phone and they don't have to render and load when you go to view them.

Also, what's with having to use a stylus in 2010?

I'll be open minded about your claims on the Nokia 5800 once you can describe to me why it is so much better than an iphone. In all sincerity, I'd really like to hear why it is so much better.

 

[Pradeep]

Got the 2.1 Droid update the other day. Pinch to zoom works great. Still as fast as ever.

 

[udaman]

150+ Apple h8rs posts & going :compress::compress::rotfl:

iPhone OS 4.0 : 04/08/2010 1:21 - First feature: MULTITASKING. Double-tap the home button: shows currently running apps. Determined which services apps need to run in the background, so we made those as APIs to enable the feature but preserve battery life.

1:17 - 5x digital zoom, playlists, tap-to-focus video, Places in photos, home screen wallpaper, file & delete mail search results, Bluetooth keyboards.

1:14 - iPhone 4.0: due in summer 2010. Over 1,500 new APIs, including accessing the calendar, photo library, video camera data... quick look, SMS, full map overlays, and automated testing for apps.

1:11 - App demos: Netflix, weather radar, Marvel comic reader, ABC.

 

[Mercutio]

Also, what's with having to use a stylus in 2010?

I don't have to use a stylus on my phone, but it's much more comfortable and accurate than trying to deal with the hard keyboard my phone has.

One of the things I'm looking forward to on the EVO is a much larger on-screen keyboard, but I suspect I'll wind up missing my stylus and being able to comfortably use my phone when it's 20 below with a wind chill.

 

[Handruin]

Sounds like some good features being implemented. The main thing I wanted was Pandora to run in the background while doing other things.

 

[Stereodude]

It will certainly be entertaining to watch all the Apple Fanboys do a u-turn. For several years they've sworn multitasking was irrelevant. :rant: Now they're suddenly going to welcome it with open arms recognizing it's importance. :cheers:

 

[Howell]

Just because its available doesn't make it relevant. Consider it marketing; or a spoonful of STFU.

 

[MaxBurn]

All recent Nokia phones can have the Nokia mapping app loaded on to them for free. It doesn't require a data connection for most things (Things like live traffic updates obviously do).

Thanks, I will have to check into this. Do you know off the top of your head if that does turn by turn directions or is it more like the google maps implementation?

Voip on the iPod touch might be a bit dependent on what you want to do. If you just want to make calls then you're probably fine, but if you plan to receive them as well then you may be stuck with the choice of using the iPod or being able to get calls since there is no multitasking on the iPhone OS (And a notification based VOIP client would require a 3rd party service compatible with your VOIP provider to notify the iPod to start the VOIP app when a call was coming in). Maybe iPhone OS4 will fix this, guess we'll know tomorrow...

Actually no incoming calls might be great. :bglaugh: