great hosting deal...

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
Hmm ... looks interesting. I happen to be in the market for a hosting service and have been trying to do some comparisons. Anyone have any other suggestions?
 

timwhit

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 23, 2002
Messages
5,278
Location
Chicago, IL
i said:
Hmm ... looks interesting. I happen to be in the market for a hosting service and have been trying to do some comparisons. Anyone have any other suggestions?

Handruin works well as my hosting provider...
 

blakerwry

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Oct 12, 2002
Messages
4,203
Location
Kansas City, USA
Website
justblake.com
yeah, but i couldn't find a cheaper host if I wanted to... im currently on a !$5/year hosting plan for 25MB of space.. 1 mySQL database, maybe 5-10 POP accounts and a handfull of FTP accounts... 1 subdomain...

I push the limits of my space as it is.. perhaps I'll goto the 50-100MB plans later on...
 

Pradeep

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
3,845
Location
Runny glass
www.pair.com is good for me. Bit more costly than the elcheapos but you get a server that doesn't have a bunch of skript kiddies taking it down every day.
 

The JoJo

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Jan 25, 2002
Messages
1,490
Location
Finland, Turku
Website
www.thejojo.com
We had a great hosting deal here in F. 30 euros a year for registering a .com address and hosting.

Too bad the last time I checked on one of their customers web sites, I was returned to the homepage of the hoster that contained a notice that a few HDs had gone bad, and the replacements would arrive in a couple days. Wonder how their backup system works..... :eekers:

Anyway, I'm getting a pit suspicous about these cheap places......
 

blakerwry

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Oct 12, 2002
Messages
4,203
Location
Kansas City, USA
Website
justblake.com
i certainly wouldn't recomend the place if I hadn't had good success with them myself or if I didn't have the recomendation of someone I trust. In this case I have both.
 

blakerwry

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Oct 12, 2002
Messages
4,203
Location
Kansas City, USA
Website
justblake.com
Just anted to inform everyone that the hoster Xcensus.com seems to be having some sort of MAJOR problem on atleast 1 of their servers.

Yesterday I tried to visit my site and was greeted with the default "newly installed apache page".. Today I am now greeted with an "abandoned property software" page.. this seems to be affecting everyone who was on the same server as me (69.1.71.110).. xcensus has 4-5 different servers.

I have checked with my registrar and everything apears to be fine on their end, this is some sort of problem with xcensus.

My email, however, is still working... i have emailed engineers and have not recieved a response.. it has been about 24 hours...

If you were considering xcensus as a hosting provier you may want to hold off until this issue is resolved or reconsider if you don't feel xcensus is reliable enough for you.
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
Thanks blakewry. I sent xcensus an email back on Tuesday with a very basic question about one of their hosting options, but I never received a reply.

I also considered voxtreme (I have a couple of family members who'd consider sharing a hosting package), but based on Handruin's recent experience, I'm not sure about them.

Since then I've been giving cphosting.com a close look.

I suspect they'll be my choice - I really should make a decision by the end of this weekend.
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
13,741
Location
USA
I have had my difficulties with voxtreme, but I'd like to share this thread if you have a minute to read it over.

My recent incidents with support were not alone. Others have recognized the problems and the main owner; Matt has made an announcement regarding support deterioration.

I'll admit a slight bias for voxtreme only for that their honesty has been better than my previous experience with burst. They recognized the support problem and have temporarily suspended new sales so that they can focus on their current customer base and make the needed changes to improve the company and quality of service.

All said and done, time will tell if their new changes will make a difference, but they are trying. One of my more recent support requests was answered in less than 6 minutes which is more like the voxtreme support I remember from the past. Hopefully they will be able to handle the support situation and improve their process.

Overall, I think they are a good company who is open, honest, and fair. They're not perfect, and I've had my moment where I want to kill someone, but in the end they try to make it right.

Blake, is xcensus a reseller, or do they have their own datacenter? You ever think there is a slight chance that someone like voxtreme may host xcensus.com? They could have a dedicated server from voxtreme or somewhere else...chances are slim it's voxtreme (who is technically a reseller also), but they may be a reseller, much like I am, but to a larger degree.

I may be in a different situation than blake. Blake, do you have the ability to resell? If not, that could be the slight advantage to your hosting plan. When you sell reselling accounts, the people who resell may have less rules and regulations in comparison to the parent company. So for example, in our case, there could be a reseller on our server who sells to everyone and anyone. They may get a client who regularly makes mistakes in their scripting which causes us down time. Through no fault of voxtreme, this problem will continue to persistent until I, or some other reseller makes a complaint.

In an environment that doesn't resell, the parent company may be able to regulate and monitor the accounts closer to help remove problems like we have seen. When you give someone more control (such as being a reseller) there is bound to be more problems. Our next solution would be to host in a dedicated environment where no one else shares the system. I've rarely if ever heard a complaint in the forums from dedicated server members.

i, if you don't need to resell, xcensus may be the better solution. I have no experience with them and I've never heard anything about them. If Blake has had good experience, chances are you will too. Keep in mind that you may potentially be placed onto a new server where things could be different. Since Blake has been with them for months, chances are they may have other servers with different specs and setups. This is a potential situation where one person has a great experience with a company, and someone else may not.
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
Thanks for the update Handruin. That's an interesting situation at Voxtreme.

I'm still leaning towards CPHosting. It's a shot in the dark to some extent as I don't know anyone else using them, but their bandwidth rates are much better than Voxtreme's. That's the primary thing I'm wary of with Voxtreme.

Disk space is trivial - at least compared to how hard it is to get bandwidth. If I see a company differentiating its plans primarily based on disk space that immediately raises a red flag and I start scrutinizing them in more detail. Consequently I ignored disk space altogether when I started doing comparisons. Voxtreme had one of the highest cost per GB each month in terms of maximum allowable transfers. They effectively charge $2/GB each month for all of their plans, with the exception of their "best" plan (one of the semi-dedicated server options), where it drops to $1.67/GB. And if you go beyond the maximum, you start paying $3/GB (or $2/GB for either of their semi-dedicated server options) for any extra usage.

Compare that to CPHosting, where the entry-level reseller account is $2/GB. From there it steadily drops to $1.50/GB, then to $1/GB, then down to an amazing $0.83/GB. In other words, they offer more for their better paying customers (each month, the more you spend, the more you save :wink: ). With the exception of that small drop in price for their "best" plan, Voxtreme doesn't do that.

Furthermore, with CPHosting, it's only $1/GB each month if you go over your allotted data transfer limit. And they even offer further discounts if you pay annually, instead of monthly (not that I'm willing to risk that just yet).

Of course, I am aware that very often you get what you pay for, but until one of us here at StorageForum gives CPHosting a try, how will we know for certain in this case? :wink:

As for xcensus, I had to stop considering them when I discovered they don't offer SMTP server access. That's something I need as the SMTP server with my current ISP is terrible. I routinely don't receive mail that people have - without question - sent.

I was going to add that xcensus also never replied to my email inquiry, but the above paragraph pretty much clouds that potential comment with such uncertainty there wouldn't be much point. :wink:

Anyway, I also did a few searches online for comments about cphosting and found some positive ones (whether they were planted or not who knows). Worst case I can cancel after a month and let everyone here know how things went. :)
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
13,741
Location
USA
You might want to look through webhostingtalk.com for some more info on hosts. They seem to recommend www.SplashHost.com as a good provider.

After reading your last response, I'm surprised at your feelings on bandwidth vs disk space. I'm 100% opposite when it comes to these items. I find that disk space is not trivial and that I'd rather have 5x as much disk space over bandwidth because I rarely use my allotment of bandwidth.

When I create a hosting account, I'm more reluctant to give space over bandwidth because the space seems to be used much faster. How much bandwidth do you anticipate using every month? I get 15 GB every month with 1GB space (for $25/month). In reality, all the sites I host probably use 3GB bandwidth and 500 MB space.

You should also consider what type of bandwidth cphost offers, not just the price. Some plans may limit total data transfer while others will give you a much higher connection. (Depends on the datacenter) I think cphost comes out of rackspace's datacenter where as voxtreme comes out of NAC. I believe NAC is one of the bigger datacenters on the east coast.

SMTP is a nice feature until your ISP blocks the port. :evil: Voxtreme offers SMTP, but my ISP started blocking the out-going port roughly 2 months ago. Now I have to use them to send e-mail.

Good luck with cphosting, I hope they work out good for you. I looked at their website and it seems they are using a fairly old version of CPANEL is their website is up to date. CPANEL3 is old news, I'm using version 7.4 right now. :eek:
 

blakerwry

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Oct 12, 2002
Messages
4,203
Location
Kansas City, USA
Website
justblake.com
With the plans Xcensus has right now, you really have to get theor "reseller" plan if you want to resell.. that will set you back $27/mo, $20 for additional units... each unit comes with unlimited domains, email, SQL, etc... 2GB data and 25Gb monthly transfers. The old plans were better.

The xcensus page seems to be back up, but my site is not... I have not yet received an email back from them which is odd.. I assume their techs are dealing with whatever the problem is at the moment.. Xcensus seems like a small reseller, I usually email the guys there personally, as yet I have talked to only 2 differnt people and usually get responses within a hour or two.

Maybe they have been having email problems.. not sure... I'll be sending another one off soon.

oh.. and they're using Cpanel 7.4.1-RELEASE_73
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
See ... that's what I count on here at StorageForum. I can finally approach making a decision, and I can have faith that a discussion here will suddenly leave me back at square one.

(Just kidding. :wink: )

Seriously though, I really have no idea what the right answer is. I'm just going to pick something and deal with it. :)
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
Oh yeah, I believe CPHosting's web page is out of date. They are apparently runing CPanel 7.4.2-STABLE.
 

blakerwry

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Oct 12, 2002
Messages
4,203
Location
Kansas City, USA
Website
justblake.com
Xcensus is back up, wish I would have read my excite.com email earlier and my site would be back up yesterday.

Aparently Xcensus switched their servers over to a new data center and something went wrong with the server my site was hosted on.. Xcensus claimed "reports" of some people's sites showing up as someone elses domain... personally, I think it was the whole server and all the domains hosted on it...


I, if you're still interested in xcensus, I'd suggest you give them another shot.
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
I'm trying cphosting for now.

My first thought has little to do with cphosting though: CPanel is awful. Do people like this thing? I see it everywhere when I search for webhosting so I assume they do. That baffles me.

Case in point, what exactly is "Forwading"?

Is it something you do moments before you enter the water to start swimming? Or does it referring to the process of tearing off little pieces of paper before you insert them into the straw to shoot at people? Or would that be "forwadding"?

Good god.

Give me a command-line interface and a well-written book, please.

Another example: I've just added two FTP accounts ... but they don't show up anywhere so I can't remove them. Heavens! There's no pretty "delete" icon! Whatever will I do!?

Delete the whole damn account, that's what. Better to do that than have two phantom FTP accounts that the software appears only half-aware of.


I wish I could afford a T1. Then I could just host everything myself off a nice, functional, quirk-free, OpenBSD box.
 

CougTek

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
8,726
Location
Québec, Québec
me said:
Did you turn 28 this week, or 48?
???

What's the link with that and the rest of the thread?

In any case :
cake.gif
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
Thanks for the cake Cougtek. And yes, I'm complaining too much these days - I fear I seem more and more like a grumpy old man when computers are concerned.

I blame the IT guys at work. :wink:
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
13,741
Location
USA
What don't you like about it, i? I like CPANEL, however sometimes it is slow. If they are using the default theme, that might detract you from CPANEL, but for most things, it works rather well.

ps happy b-day!
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
Handruin said:
What don't you like about it, i?

Well, the poor spelling is one thing - it makes it seem as though it was thrown together by a group of 8th graders. Appearance matters. Small faults can sour the otherwise professional look of a software package. What's more, if the creators of this software package can't stop to correct the spelling of a single word, what does that say about the time they have to produce a quality software package?

But I guess what I really don't like about it is that it's all I've got.

In other words, I'm out of luck when something's apparently broken with CPanel. And that's how I feel about all GUIs: they're fine for day to day stuff, but when you've suddenly got something unusual to deal with, nothing beats the command-line.

I can't just bring up a shell and go and edit a file somewhere to try and do something I can't accomplish with CPanel. The example I gave above is what's driving me nuts right now. Under "Account Settings" I choose "FTP Manager". Under "FTP Accounts" I choose the option to add an account. Ok, done.

Now how do I remove the account?

According to all the documentation I've found at cphosting and elsewhere, any new account should turn up in that list in the FTP Accounts section, and from there I should be able to select a "Delete" option. But the FTP accounts I've added don't appear in the list - only the default FTP accounts appear (which I'm not given the option to disable, which is yet another limitation of CPanel I could get around if I had real control over the system).

Always looking for more, am I. :wink:
 

blakerwry

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Oct 12, 2002
Messages
4,203
Location
Kansas City, USA
Website
justblake.com
as far as I know xcensus offers telnet to your server.. don't know what shell they use... last I saw on their site they run redhat...

I too don't like Cpanel.. i've noticed some quirks and I think the interface is pretty poor... i'd prefer more options.


speaking of options.. I think xcensus offers 3 different webmail interfaces squirrel, horde, and some3thing else... amybe metamail...

oh well -sounds like i'm preaching... I'll stop.
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
13,741
Location
USA
Do you're hosting providers offer the different cpanel themes. As silly as it may sound, the different themes can offer different functionality, and may even fix spelling mistakes. ;)

I use the x skin theme and it works well. Also, your hosting company would be wise to offer SSH over telnet, but either way, having a shell login is a plus.
 

blakerwry

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Oct 12, 2002
Messages
4,203
Location
Kansas City, USA
Website
justblake.com
They keep changing plans around, I'm not quite sure what they're offering anymore...

I do, however, know that I'm getting alot better deal than what they're currently offering... i'm basically getting their DSH-V050A plan with more email and FTP accounts for about $0.50/month (about $5 per year)... I am, however, limited to 25MB of space.

Perhaps emailing them with your questions will yeild an answer. At the time that I signed up my account was not listed as having a shell account that's telnetable... I haven't tried logging in or anything, maybe I should. As far as i know i can't change the CPanel theme and they do use SSH.
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
I think I just nailed my first bug in CPanel.

This worries me because if I'm correct, it may mean that the code monkey(s) who produce CPanel are failing to consistently validate user-provided data.

Can someone help test my theory?

Steps to produce unexpected behavior in CPanel:

1) Go to the "Account Settings" area (if your theme has such an area)
2) Choose "FTP Manager"
3) Choose "FTP Accounts"
4) Choose "Add Account"
5) Enter a unique username (in the "login" field)
6) Now for the fun part: enter a password ... but make sure it has a single ampersand (&) in it.
7) Click the "Create" button (make sure you DON'T have the directory end with just a slash ... leave it with the automatic suggestion of .../username/)

If your CPanel version works like mine (and if I'm correct here with my deduction of the cause of the problem I've been having), you should get a message saying the account has been created successfully. It should display the correct username with the exact password you chose at that point.

The thing is, if you now go back to the main "FTP Accounts" section, your new account won't be listed there. Neat! But if you check your CPanel File Manager, you'll see that CPanel at least created a new folder for the FTP Account.

All this trouble because of a single ampersand, and the fact that I actually try to create highly secure passwords every time I create an account for something that matters.

I'm amazed. I ran into this problem within the first 10 minutes of using CPanel - and I think I broke it with a single ampersand.

edit by request from submitter: removed details regarding CPANEL bug.
 

blakerwry

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Oct 12, 2002
Messages
4,203
Location
Kansas City, USA
Website
justblake.com
anpersand and percent signs are usually no no's in email username/passwords... this is becasue some servers require the full email address for the username, but older clients don't always allow you to use an @ sign. The fix was to make servers accept % or & signs, maybe also # signs as equivalents to the @ symbol.

As far as I know, all FTP clients accept the @ symbol, so I would't think the same quirk would exist on either FTP servers or clients, but know knows...

Just a hunch, but this may be related to the CPanel problem, maybe they are not being very thorough with their coding or error checking.
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
Perhaps that's part of the story blakerwry. But that doesn't forgive CPanel for behaving the way it does. It gives no warning whatsoever about "illegal" characters in the password field. It prints the standard success message regardless of what you type into that password box. That's stunningly poor.

I assume adding an FTP account in CPanel launches a two stage process:

1) Add a new folder if required and set permissions.
2) Run the FTP "add user" command to have ProFTP do the real work of adding the new user. If you're right, this is where the failure is occurring.

This also doesn't forgive CPanel for picking up the lack of a success code result from #2, nor does it - most importantly of all - forgive CPanel for not making sure the user has entered acceptable (and/or non-hostile) data in the first place.
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
I can't remember ever having problems with ampersands on UNIX systems (I have a % and an & in at least 2 account passwords). Windows software has sometimes given me trouble with punctuation symbols. That said, software that won't accept punctuation symbols for passwords should always warn you about that somewhere - in the documentation or on screen. To not do so warrants death for the software creator. But really, not accepting punctuation symbols is a pretty poor policy. There are relatively few characters you can create a password from (at least with ASCII), so limiting yourself to just numbers and letters is less secure than allowing standard symbols too.

I even remember reading on Slashdot a few times over the years about a Solaris user using the tab character (ASCII 9) as a character in their passwords, just to throw another wrench into the works for hackers coming from Windows systems. Who the heck would think to try a tab character in a password? I thought that was pretty clever.

I loved the idea, but would never duplicate it because tab really is too often used as a control character for the things I work with.
 

blakerwry

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Oct 12, 2002
Messages
4,203
Location
Kansas City, USA
Website
justblake.com
just wanted to let you know I was easily able to duplicate the problem... it's really just poor coding. There is no excuse for it to say that the account was successfully created when it infact was not.

Just poor coding and error checking. Programming 101.

looks like Cpanel coders got a C-
 

Howell

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Feb 24, 2003
Messages
4,740
Location
Chattanooga, TN
i said:
I even remember reading on Slashdot a few times over the years about a Solaris user using the tab character (ASCII 9) as a character in their passwords, just to throw another wrench into the works for hackers coming from Windows systems. Who the heck would think to try a tab character in a password? I thought that was pretty clever.

I had read this a few months ago but instead of finding the original article I found this one.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...=/technet/columns/security/askus/au042400.asp
Anyone who's implemented the passfilt DLL from Service pack 2 onwards knows what characters make for secure passwords: different case (capital and lower), numerals, and special characters like !$%&. The basic idea is to make attackers search an increasingly larger wordspace in order to successfully guess your password. What is lesser known is that the non-printing ASCII characters increase the wordspace even further, and have the added benefit of preventing brute force attacks by most password guessing software (brute force attacks differ from dictionary attacks in that they simply guess randomly generated strings of characters until the find the right one). The non-printing ASCII characters can be accessed via setting the NUMLOCK key and holding down ALT while typing the appropriate three-digit ASCII code (such as 255). This is obviously a cumbersome requirement for everyday users, but non-printing ASCII codes are great for service accounts that never should be logged in interactively.
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
blakerwry said:
just wanted to let you know I was easily able to duplicate the problem...

Thanks for checking blakerwry. I guess I should let the support people at cphosting know about it. When I first ran into this problem (and before I had figured out what was causing it), I sent them an inquiry. They sent me back a very prompt reply saying they didn't see any such problem. I'm not sure what my options are for mentioning it to the CPanel people - or even if they'd care.
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
13,741
Location
USA
You could try submitting a bug to cpanel. They may already know about this and have plans to fix it. If not, they will know now. :)
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
1,080
Thanks Handruin.

I went to the page and was about to (grudgingly - I'm feeling lazy today) fill out that form. But then I went to their "Purchasing" page. I can't believe how much CPanel costs. Those guys must be rolling in cash given how many hosting companies by their product. And it's all done on a per-user license basis of course. Clearly they don't need any help from me. :)
 

me

What is this storage?
Joined
Feb 10, 2002
Messages
28
Not that you're bitter or envious or anything.
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
13,741
Location
USA
They make a decent amount of money, not only with CPANEL, but web host manager. WHM isn't a ton better than CPANEL, but it works fine for what I need. Most places charge per month for cpanel so that the $1200-$1400 price tag doesn't scare you away. (discounts for multi-license purchase)

I think one licesnse covers the server, but I'm not 100% sure on that, so you can divid the cost based on the number of users on a host.
 
Top