Netbooks (AMD Brazos)

[Chewy509]

Hi Everyone,

Hope you holiday season preparations are coming along.

My wife surprised me yeasterday by mentioning that she wants me to get a new laptop/netbook for Uni, and give my current Asus 1001HA netbook to our daughter... (Short story, my son is about to start school, and has a netbook himself. My daughter a few years younger is also starting to play some of the educational games on his one (mainly GCompris), but if she spends more than 30mins on it, arguments start, so my wife wants her to have her own netbook).

With the newish netbooks out there seem to be more options as far as hardware configurations are concerned namely:
Intel Atom N570 (dual core with hyper-threading).
Intel Atom N455 (single core with hyper-threading).
AMD C60 (dual core).

The interesting one is the AMD Solution, whilst it has a very similar power envelope as the Atom, it also packs a Radeon HD6290 GPU.

One problem I'm having is finding a decent review on the AMD Brazos platform and the C60 APU, specifically comparing to the Atom N570. The other is finding actual netbook models that are based on the Brazos platform and so far have found the following:
Asus 1015BX
Toshiba NB550D
Lenovo x120e

Sadly, it seems that only the Toshiba NB550D is available here in Australia...

But overall my requirements are:
10/11" screen. (1024x600 but 1366 x 768 prefered)
dual core CPU (Atom N570 or C60 or better)
6+hr battery life. (real world tests)
min 250GB HDD.
Will run Linux, with Netbeans or Eclipse IDEs.
max AU$400 price limit.

I would consider a new 11" ultrabook, but these are simply out of the price range. (Even the Lenovo x121e would be ideal, but is $200 too much).

Also the ability to run Linux with an IDE is a hard requirement, so can't consider a tablet... (like the Asus Transformer).

Any links to reviews or comments on the AMD C60 would be greatly appreciated. (Or a link to a sub $400 ultrabook would be even better).

PS. Expected to buy something in late Jan/early Feb, so am starting research now...

 

[Stereodude]

People still buy Netbooks?

Haven't most makers abandoned them?

 

[Chewy509]

People still buy Netbooks?

Yes, a lot in fact, in cases where tablets can't offer the required functionality. I do personally expect ultrabooks to kill most of the netbook market... but only when their pricing starts to come down.

Haven't most makers abandoned them?

I know Dell and Lenovo have stopped selling netbooks, leaving Acer, HP, Asus, Toshiba and possibly Samsung as the only companies still making netbooks. Acer and HP only offer 1 model now, Toshiba has 2 models (1 Atom based, the other AMD C50/C60 based), and Asus has 5-6 models (mostly Atom based, with 1 Atom+ION2 and 1 AMD C60 based). Yes, it's a dying market.

I've been doing a lot of looking around, and it's certain that tablets are taking away at the bottom end of the market, and ultra-cheap 15" laptops are taking away the top of the market. But only current netbooks can offer a normal computing experience, coupled with 6+hrs battery life.

Case in point, Lenovo has the Edge E320 on sale for AU$499 (and is expected to offer a $50 buy-online discount soon), which give you a i3-2330M, 2GB RAM, 320GB, and 6 cell battery in a compact 13" form factor. (Even I'm considering this, but need to talk the wife into the extra few dollars).

 

[Mercutio]

The Thinkpad X130 looks like a pretty solid buy, once they're finally available. They have a proper i3 CPU and I'm sure they're up to snuff in other respects as well. It might be worth the price premium.

 

[Chewy509]

The Thinkpad X130 looks like a pretty solid buy, once they're finally available. They have a proper i3 CPU and I'm sure they're up to snuff in other respects as well. It might be worth the price premium.

I am certainly considering the x series (x121e or x130), as well as the E320 if I can get together the few extra dollars. (I would rather have an i3, instead of a Atom or C60 anyday, but the price seems to the sticking point).

 

[Chewy509]

I am certainly considering the x series (x121e or x130), as well as the E320 if I can get together the few extra dollars. (I would rather have an i3, instead of a Atom or C60 anyday, but the price seems to the sticking point).

The household finance officer just informed me the bugdet for a new laptop is in fact $500, not $400 as I previously thought.

I guess I'll be looking at one of the 11/13" i3 based subnotebook models instead like the ThinkPad E320...

I guess this just backs my previous statement about the cheap laptops killing the netbook market. (Why settle for an Atom, when you can spend a few dollars more and get more power with now similar battery life).

 

[BingBangBop]

I was hanging around the Best Buy kindle area. The general population does not get it. The Kindle fire is not an E-reader, rather it is a tablet and all current tablets are just big smart phones without the phone capability.

I think that Amazon made a mistake labeling the Fire as a Kindle. It will do very poorly as an E-reader because it only has a battery life measured in days and people do not want to have to charge their E-reader every day. They may sell lots of Kindle fire's this Christmas season but it will bite them back when the consumers expectations are shattered by the facts.

 

[DrunkenBastard]

In the vein of Brazos, got my eldest an ASUS K53U-DH21 for his first laptop (uses the E-450).

http://www.amazon.com/K53U-DH21-15-6-Inch-Versatile-Entertainment-Laptop/dp/B005PAJVVO/

15" rather than a netbook formfactor, but seems to be grunty enough for his homework needs. Thought it better to go with more battery life than ultimate top end cpu performance. Actually got it from BestBuy for around $370.

 

[DrunkenBastard]

The Thinkpad X130 looks like a pretty solid buy, once they're finally available. They have a proper i3 CPU and I'm sure they're up to snuff in other respects as well. It might be worth the price premium.

The rubber clad x130e is definitely a contender, unfortunately delayed till Feb 22nd due to popularity by school districts *grumble grumble* Actually I was thinking of the one with the E-450.

 

[LunarMist]

I guess this just backs my previous statement about the cheap laptops killing the netbook market. (Why settle for an Atom, when you can spend a few dollars more and get more power with now similar battery life).

Netbooks got squeezed from both ends, cheaper small notebooks and tablets.

 

[LunarMist]

I was hanging around the Best Buy kindle area. The general population does not get it. The Kindle fire is not an E-reader, rather it is a tablet and all current tablets are just big smart phones without the phone capability.

I think that Amazon made a mistake labeling the Fire as a Kindle. It will do very poorly as an E-reader because it only has a battery life measured in days and people do not want to have to charge their E-reader every day. They may sell lots of Kindle fire's this Christmas season but it will bite them back when the consumers expectations are shattered by the facts.

But it does movies and videos.

 

[BingBangBop]

Yes, as a tablet I think it is a very good bargain. I'm not disagreeing that it can do movies, videos, the internet, and all that. It is a glorified smart phone without the phone capability and it does that well.

It is a question of marketing. Amazon (Or perhaps Best Buy) is not marketing the fire as a tablet, but rather as a Kindle+. In Best Buy it is physically separated from the other tablets and being sold in the E-Reader area next to the other Kindles. The people are looking at it as the top-end Kindle creating an expectation that is not going to be satisfied.

 

[Handruin]

I was hanging around the Best Buy kindle area. The general population does not get it. The Kindle fire is not an E-reader, rather it is a tablet and all current tablets are just big smart phones without the phone capability.

I think that Amazon made a mistake labeling the Fire as a Kindle. It will do very poorly as an E-reader because it only has a battery life measured in days and people do not want to have to charge their E-reader every day. They may sell lots of Kindle fire's this Christmas season but it will bite them back when the consumers expectations are shattered by the facts.

Yes, as a tablet I think it is a very good bargain. I'm not disagreeing that it can do movies, videos, the internet, and all that. It is a glorified smart phone without the phone capability and it does that well.

It is a question of marketing. Amazon (Or perhaps Best Buy) is not marketing the fire as a tablet, but rather as a Kindle+. In Best Buy it is physically separated from the other tablets and being sold in the E-Reader area next to the other Kindles. The people are looking at it as the top-end Kindle creating an expectation that is not going to be satisfied.

I agree with you. This will confuse people who are looking for the top of the line eReaders who are use to the e-ink variety. I think the marketing has something to do with the closest competitor of B&N who is in the same arena. They both have devices in the same hemisphere of cost and they both started as eRearders and have moved on to a more-glorified tablet with eReader capabilities. They may be targeting them more so than focusing on the customer specifically.

Not only is battery life a confusing situation for people looking for an eReader, it's also a question of back-lighting vs no back-lighting. I can only speak for the Fire with regards to my issue, but I find even at the lowest brightness setting, it's still too bright for my liking. This can cause eye strain. I'm guessing the Nook may have a similar issue.

Slightly related, Amazon released a OTA software update for the Fire yesterday to address numerous complaints. In my limited usage of the update since late last night, it does feel more responsive and they've address a couple of issues I've complained about (and sent them feedback for). I'm assuming others have complained the same.

 

[Chewy509]

Went into the local JB HiFi store to have a look at a few of the 10/11" netbooks/laptops, and basically they have virtually no stock on netbooks or any of the 11" sub notebooks. The area manager said that netbooks/subnotebook stocks are very low due to HDD shortages caused by the floods... They even had very low stock levels of the more common 15/17" range as well.

So basically they could only sell what was in stock and advised not to order anything, as it could be 3-4 weeks before they got replacement stock...

Quickly checking Lenovo's Australia website, the E320 and x121e both indicate 4+ week ship times as well, gving credit to that theory.

Has anyone else noticed this trend in low stock levels of certain laptops?

Also has anyone played with a HP DM1-4000 series notebook? (11" notebook w/AMD E-Series CPU). More interested in keyboard ergonomics and screen quality.

Unfortunately due to size limits in the storage pannier on the bike, I'm limited to 10" or 11" notebook. (I could squeeze a 13" laptop in, but leaving little room for anything else like wet-weather gear).

 

[LiamC]

This seems similar:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/20512

 

[Mercutio]

In the last couple weeks, I noticed that Lenovo was discounting SSDs pretty heavily in more expensive Thinkpads. As far as I know, they still use crappy Samsung SSDs that I wouldn't say are worth the purchase price, but at times I saw T and X series models with 128GB drives for basically the same price as systems with 500GB mechanical drives.

I got my shipped-from-China Thinkpad about two weeks after I ordered it, but that could have just been the right point in the Xmas season logistics cycle. My notebook made it from Anchorage, Alaska to Indianapolis in one day, with a stop in Louisville, where it was apparently approved by US Customs. I'm amazed at how fast that package moved, especially given that I've had Thinkpads from China held up at customs for more than a week at times.

 

[Chewy509]

This seems similar:
http://techreport.com/articles.x/20512

Yep, I've found a lot of good reviews on the DM1z, and all are positive. Even a lot of the comments on Amazon, regarding the DM1z and DM1-4010us are all very positive, hence my question regarding the ergonomics of the notebook which unfortunately seems to be missing from most reviews.

 

[LunarMist]

So basically they are slower than 2-3 year old Intel ULV CPUs, but with better graphics. Unfortunately the >3.5 lbs. weight is rather much.

 

[Handruin]

In the last couple weeks, I noticed that Lenovo was discounting SSDs pretty heavily in more expensive Thinkpads. As far as I know, they still use crappy Samsung SSDs that I wouldn't say are worth the purchase price, but at times I saw T and X series models with 128GB drives for basically the same price as systems with 500GB mechanical drives.

I got my shipped-from-China Thinkpad about two weeks after I ordered it, but that could have just been the right point in the Xmas season logistics cycle. My notebook made it from Anchorage, Alaska to Indianapolis in one day, with a stop in Louisville, where it was apparently approved by US Customs. I'm amazed at how fast that package moved, especially given that I've had Thinkpads from China held up at customs for more than a week at times.

I think mine took about two weeks to ship to my house back in November when I ordered it from Lenovo.

 

[DrunkenBastard]

Went into the local JB HiFi store to have a look at a few of the 10/11" netbooks/laptops, and basically they have virtually no stock on netbooks or any of the 11" sub notebooks. The area manager said that netbooks/subnotebook stocks are very low due to HDD shortages caused by the floods... They even had very low stock levels of the more common 15/17" range as well.

So basically they could only sell what was in stock and advised not to order anything, as it could be 3-4 weeks before they got replacement stock...

Quickly checking Lenovo's Australia website, the E320 and x121e both indicate 4+ week ship times as well, gving credit to that theory.

Has anyone else noticed this trend in low stock levels of certain laptops?

Also has anyone played with a HP DM1-4000 series notebook? (11" notebook w/AMD E-Series CPU). More interested in keyboard ergonomics and screen quality.

Unfortunately due to size limits in the storage pannier on the bike, I'm limited to 10" or 11" notebook. (I could squeeze a 13" laptop in, but leaving little room for anything else like wet-weather gear).

Have you considered a backpack? Should act as extra back protection (assuming you have some back protection already in your jacket). I ride with my 15" on the back and it's not an issue. Of course if you are wearing thongs and a singlet to beat the heat ....

 

[Dïscfärm]

People still buy Netbooks?

Haven't most makers abandoned them?

Netbooks got walloped in 2011 by a combination of cheap small laptops, newfangled tablets, and the late arrival of new-generation Intel Atom microprocessors.

Several netbook makers phased out older model netbooks based on the Pineview Atom processors early in 2011 for new designs based on new-generation 32 nm CedarTrail-M Atom microprocessors. However, CedarTrail-M Atom processor production was delayed for a few months, which really screwed up a smooth transition to new faster lower-power netbook designs that were originally due to arrive in Q3/2011. CedarTrail-M Atom processors have only just began shipping during the past few weeks in Q4/2011.

New netbook models were delayed or cancelled as the result of Intel's manufacturing delay. Some new netbook models were introduced with AMD Brazos processors instead of Atom CedarTrail-M processors. Now that Atom production is back on track, I suspect that some netbooks could eventually be reborn in 2012 as a very-low-end "ultrabook" (or sub-ultrabook) to compete better on value with cheap notebooks and tablets -- equipped with an 11-inch display instead of a 10-inch display and a Cedar Trail-M with up to 4 GB of DDR3 RAM.

Intel will have another generation of Atom in mid-2012 that will be a complete system-on-a-chip (SOC). The Medfield Atom SOC will be for tablets and Clover Trail Atom SOC will be for netbooks.

 

[Chewy509]

Intel will have another generation of Atom in mid-2012 that will be a complete system-on-a-chip (SOC). The Medfield Atom SOC will be for tablets and Clover Trail Atom SOC will be for netbooks.

Yep, the new Atom has been released to OEMs, so there should be some new models coming out Q1-2012.

However I would like to note 1 small issue with the new Atoms, they use a PowerVR derived graphics core instead of the traditional Intel GMA series graphics core. Why is that an issue? Well, it means very limited or no support for non-Windows OSes...

My current netbook (Atom N270 based) runs fantastic with Arch Linux (even running GNOME 3.2), however installing Windows XP or Windows 7, it certainly suck donkey's balls performance wise. While these new Atoms may be quicker than the original crop of Atoms, straddling them with Windows hads another reason to avoid them, and go with something else. Not to mention that Microsoft basically dictates the hardware side of things to the OEMs in regards to the form factor in order to get the cheap OEM licenses... (eg 2GB RAM - which is a limitator of WIn7 Starter, small 1024x600 screen size, etc).

 

[Chewy509]

Have you considered a backpack? Should act as extra back protection (assuming you have some back protection already in your jacket). I ride with my 15" on the back and it's not an issue. Of course if you are wearing thongs and a singlet to beat the heat ....

I've got a backpack that will easily fit a 15" laptop, however its nice not to have to worry about wet weather when carry the laptop. (My commute is approx 1hr each way).