HDTV Cards

[SteveC]

Now that all the local stations are back broadcasting OTA (albeit some at low power, but I'm close enough that it shouldn't matter), I'm looking into getting an HDTV card, and was wondering if anyone here had experiences with them, especially the software they come with. If it has an easy way to convert to DVD and/or Divx/Xvid, it'll be a big plus. Also, ATI recently demonstrated an HDTV AIW card. Any idea on when that'll be released?

DVICO FusionHDTV II - ($159) - Software decoder, lowest cost.

DVICO FusionHDTV III (~$200) - New design, software decoder, half-height card.

AccessDTV ($199) - Hardware decoder, ability to simultaneously record and playback.

MyHD MDP-120 ($289) - Hardware decoder, DVI daughter-card available.

Hauppauge WinTV-HD ($299) - Hardware decoder. Don't know much else about it.

 

[Pradeep]

Are you sure about the HDTV AIW? I know they have the component out dongle, but a quick Google revealed nothing of one that can tune HDTV. Would be a sweet card. Apparently the DVICO cards do have some driver issues but they are a continous work in progress.

 

[SteveC]

Are you sure about the HDTV AIW? I know they have the component out dongle, but a quick Google revealed nothing of one that can tune HDTV. Would be a sweet card.

I read on AVSforum.com that they demonstrated it during a shareholders' meeting a couple of weeks ago. I hope it's true, but it could just be a rumor.

 

[sechs]

They already make an HDTV chip for set-top boxes. They'd just need to put everything together in a way that works.

 

[Pradeep]

I just ordered a MyHD MDP-120. I was thinking of getting a second ReplayTV, but then again my only signal source is OTA, and I have pretty crappy reception. So I thought I might as well try for HD reception, and be able to capture to the computer.

I discounted the AccessDTV card because apparently it will not work in SMP or HyperThreading machines.

The MyHD seemed the most stable of the bunch, and I wanted the hardware decoder. The ability to go to DVI later on is also a bonus. Right now I'll be viewing using the Dell 2000FP, using the VGA passthru. Once I get a HDTV monitor, I'll get the DVI daughtercard and run straight to it. Also the included remote was good, I believe the Fushions require you to pay extra for one.

 

[e_dawg]

Is it just me or does the ability to tune HDTV not seem useful anywhere you need a digital box (like in much of Canada), as the local cable companies only allow their digital cable boxes to access their network. You would have to use some stupid IR blaster that works with your TV software to change the channel on the cable company supplied HDTV capable digital box and run your HDTV tuner card mainly as a capture device.

 

[Pradeep]

That's true. In fact the my-HD and most other tuner cards don't have component inputs to record from a digital cable box anyway. For timeshifting HD, you really need a D-VHS deck, or one of the HD-PVRs that either the cable or dish companies provide. Of course with the latter options, you are limited to prob 10 hours of HD capture. I may get a D-vhs deck for archiving, it's easy to use firewire to transfer from HDD to D-VHS and vice-versa. 50GB/4 hours per tape.

 

[CityK]

Is it just me or does the ability to tune HDTV not seem useful anywhere you need a digital box (like in much of Canada)

Absolutely true for the most part of Canada. However, the situation is changing for some centres.

Toronto, for instance, currently has the one and only Canadain OTA channel; CityTV. By Q4, that will list will also include Toronto|1, CTV, CBC (two stations...FR & Eng?).

Yet at the same time (as is similar in the Vancouver, Montreal and Windsor regions) we can also recieve OTA signals transmitted by American border stations. For example, with the use of a good outdoor antenna, Torontonians can already receive 5 useable OTA signals from the Buffalo area (ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS and an independent).

With at least ten OTA stations reaching T.O by Q4, I now believe that having the abiltiy to tune is indeed of value. Of course, these stations aren't broadasting HDTV (whether pure or upconverted) all the time, but such is the case with the other deliever mediums too (cable & sat). Nonetheless, I think it is save to say that the OTA HDTV market is finally beginning to evolve here in T.O.

I look forward to the not too distant future when I view a pure HDTV stream on my 23" 1920x1200 LCD monitor with 12ms avg response

as the local cable companies only allow their digital cable boxes to access their network.

My understanding (and taken straight from AVS) is this:

- All the current HDTV cards understand the 8VSB modulation system, meaning they can decode an OTA HDTV broadcast

- only the AccessDTV card can be used to view unencrypted QAM (but still can't record it yet) .... the various flavours of QAM is what the majority of N.A. cable co.'s broadcast in.

- The forthcoming FusionHDTV III plans to support QAM


There are, of course, DVB sat cards too.

 

[SteveC]

- The forthcoming FusionHDTV III plans to support QAM

They were able to get QAM working in their labs, but none of their beta testers have been able to get it to work with their cable companies.

Pradeep, where did you order the MyHD from?

 

[Pradeep]

In any case the unencrypted QAM will mean that only the basic channels will be viewable, the good stuf like HBO, SHO etc will be encrypted. Unless they find a way to incorporate an OpenCable option in the future, which would mean you could have a choice of cable viewage device, instead of being stuck with the cable co's box.

Steve, I ordered from Digital Connection. Shipped it same day, pretty fast. Now to track it across the States

 

[SteveC]

Of course ATI announced the HDTV Wonder today, because I just ordered the FusionHDTV III yesterday.

 

[CityK]

I wonder if they're going to release it as a PCI-E card?

 

[Pradeep]

Of course ATI announced the HDTV Wonder today, because I just ordered the FusionHDTV III yesterday.

Oh well. Won't be available till Spring anyway. Can always get one to use in conjunction with your Fusion III, record two programs at once

 

[CityK]

I wonder if they're going to release it as a PCI-E card?

To answer my own question, it appears it will be a PCI card....not that rules out a PCI-E release later on I guess.

 

[Pradeep]

Of course ATI announced the HDTV Wonder today, because I just ordered the FusionHDTV III yesterday.

According to avsforum, the FusionIII appears to be identical to the ATI HDTV Wonder.

I got the HD-120 yesterday, today I fiddled with the rabbit ears and ended up hanging them from the upstairs window. I can get 40% signal on PBS (HD). This is the only full power station. That still causes some breakups, especially with challenging scenes involving water. But when the signal is good the picture quality is fantastic. I couldn't believe it. I just sat there staring at the soundless picture. They were showing the killer whale episode, and then the spermwhales. Sadly the only other HD transmitter in Rochester is ABC, and I haven't yet got their signal (running on low power). I can easily see myself spending hundreds more on a a long range UHF antenna to see if I can get any reception from Syracuse (where all 4 majors are transmitting in HD). The local CBS station here has stated that they won't go digital until 2006 when it is mandated. Bastards.

 

[Mercutio]

As if CBS has anything worth watching to begin with...

 

[SteveC]

According to avsforum, the FusionIII appears to be identical to the ATI HDTV Wonder.

I saw that too. Mine's scheduled to come Monday, and I picked up a Silver Sensor indoor antenna today. According to antennaweb.org, I'm 9.4 miles from the ESB, so that should be enough to pick up all the stations except the WB, which broadcasts on VHF at a measly 125 watts. I really want that station too, since they do Mets games in HD.

 

[Pradeep]

Wife loves Jag, I don't mind Without a Trace, NCIS, etc.

What I really want is 24 in HD, FOX comes on line in May, we'll see what pathetic effort they can make at HD. Prob 480p.

 

[SteveC]

I just installed the card, and some quick observations:

If I run it in DxVA mode with the Catalyst 4.2 drivers, I get spontaneous reboots, but it runs fine in software mode. I'll try different drivers when I get time.

With the Silver Sensor, I pick up CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, 2 PBSs (1 does HD, and the other has 4 digital sub-channels), and Telefutura. I only get 20-25% signal on the WB and nothing on Univision.

The analog tuner seems slightly better than my AIW, but not as good as using my VCR's tuner.

Doing a search for QAM stations from cable, it'll find a few, but it won't let me tune to them. I know that there are some unencrypted QAM stations on my cable system.

 

[SteveC]

I think they need to hire a better translator for the manual:

"Record is enable that computer is on during reservation recorded time and FusionHDTV is state of record waiting."

:roll:

 

[ddrueding]

I think they need to hire a better translator for the manual:

"Record is enable that computer is on during reservation recorded time and FusionHDTV is state of record waiting."

:roll:

I think your graphic fits that quote perfectly.

 

[Handruin]

I think they need to hire a better translator for the manual:

"Record is enable that computer is on during reservation recorded time and FusionHDTV is state of record waiting."

:roll:

:rotfl:

 

[Pradeep]

I ordered a Winegard Square Shooter today, in the hopes of getting Syracuse/Buffalo stations. Seems like a good performer for it's size. I'm 17 miles from the locals, and 50+ from Syracuse.

 

[SteveC]

CSI Miami looks great in HD!

I wish the program guide was better integrated into the UI. If you press the EPG button, it pops up another window, where you have to click on the TitanTV button. Unfortunately, that opens up you default browser (Firefox, in my case), but TitanTV's one touch recording only works with IE. Supposedly, the Fusion cards can be integrated into myHTPC's UI and program guide with a plugin, so I'm going to try that when I get time.

 

[CityK]

So Pradeep, SteveC, how go the new toys?

 

[SteveC]

I have no complaints about the picture or sound quality of the card, as both are excellent. There's a bug between the Catalyst 4.2 drivers and interlaced resolutions with DxVA enabled, which was causing my reboots, but since I went back to 4.1, I haven't had any problems.

Their file converter is very basic, and won't allow you to trim files or be used at the same time as the main program. Also, for some reason, it won't work with progressive sources. It serves its purpose for someone who just wants a very simple way to convert to DVD or Divx. I've been using AviSynth and VirtualDubMod instead, with very good results.

There's more Engrish sprinkled throughout the messages and dialogs, and some other annoyances with the software, which does need work, but the hardware itself is very good.

 

[CityK]

Steve, I have the exact same questions as what Helzerr asked here and here but which no one has yet answered.

 

[SteveC]

It sounded like stereo to me, but I just hooked it up briefly to test it, and I've been using my VCRs tuner instead. I'll check tomorrow to make sure.

 

[SteveC]

CityK, it's the CX23881-27 chip, and it is stero on the analog channels. What is a dbx commanding circuit?

 

[CityK]

Steve, thanks for checking.

dbx is a company specializing in signal processing...just like dolby labs. In this case, "dbx" refers to the noise reduction technology they developed.

Companding is short for "compression" and "expansion" (just like codec is short for compression and decopression). Its a type of signal handling - signals transmitted are compressed and the receiving equipment must decompress the signal to get it back to its original form. Thus, a companding circuit performs demodulation. In the case of a TV card, the companding circuit is part of the ADC.

Here's a brief explanation of companding. The bottom paragraph introduces why you might want a companding circuit that also performs noise reduction.

A little more background about the audio in analogue broadcasts can be found in this BTSC stereo encoding paper

 

[CityK]

In the case of a TV card, the companding circuit is part of the ADC.

That is, the incoming analog signal is demodulated and digitized at the same time.

 

[Mercutio]

Will any of these cards work with my satellite service?

 

[Pradeep]

Will any of these cards work with my satellite service?

No. The only way you can capture compnent output right now is to get a W-VHS deck, they were originally made for Japanese analog HDTV recording, they can capture fine thru component inputs, only downside is no digital audio, they capture analog stereo (DPL). No need to worry about copy never flags and all that crap.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=358090

$950. Not cheap. DVHS would be better, but unfortunately they only take FW input for recording...which most/all of the Dish/DirecTV boxes don't have.

 

[CityK]

None of the cards mentioned in this thread.

IIRC, you have Directv. Besides an elusive (as in don't even bother looking for it) Adaptec ABA-1010 card, I don't think there are any other DSS based PC cards for regular signals, let alone HDTV. I have no idea about the modulation etc used in Directv's HDTV service.

On the other hand, DBS cards for both regular and HDTV do exist, allowing you to tap into Echo and BEV's regular free to air channels, and if you have one of their receiver cards, you can then get the not free channels too.

 

[Stereodude]

Will any of these cards work with my satellite service?

Which satellite service do you have and how legal do you want to be?

 

[Stereodude]

DVHS would be better, but unfortunately they only take FW input for recording...which most/all of the Dish/DirecTV boxes don't have.

That's where http://www.169time.com comes into play.

 

[Mercutio]

I have DirecTV, shared with my neighbor, who pays for literally every channel in its lineup. Seriously, his bill is something like $140/month. I pay him $25 a month for access to one of his LNBs + directivo service.

The website you linked looks extremely interesting but it also looks more than a little like a scam.

 

[Stereodude]

I have DirecTV, shared with my neighbor, who pays for literally every channel in its lineup. Seriously, his bill is something like $140/month. I pay him $25 a month for access to one of his LNBs + directivo service.

The website you linked looks extremely interesting but it also looks more than a little like a scam.

You can only "lift" DiSH and Bell ExpressVu (Canadian) with a DVB-S card.

The 169time site is not a scam. If you're really curious read about them at the AVS forum.