Coronavirus

Handruin

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This is some kind of gift that keeps on giving for the negligence of their actions to... Not wearing masks, and not be socially distanced. This is the 9th month of a pandemic and they've ignored every safety protocol. This is the collective intelligence of our GOP...wtf.

Look at this list...(found online)

* Donald Trump
* Melania Trump
* Adviser Hope Hicks
* GOP Chair Ronna McDaniel
* Senator Mike Lee (R-UT)
* Senator Thom Tillis (R-NC)
* Notre Dame President Jenkins
* 1 White House staffer
* 3 journalists who work at WH
* 11 infected so far from the Presidential debate in Cleveland
* Kellyanne Conway

Screenshot_20201003-004007_Twitter.jpg

 

Newtun

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We won't ever know how sick Donald Trump has been; they'll release a few press releases, and videos of him "hard at work", then he'll go back to The White House in triumph and say "see, it was just a bad cold."

But they transferred him to Walter Reed hospital "out of an abundance of caution."

Well, The White House certainly has "an abundance of caution", since they haven't been using any. 😉
 

Handruin

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I agree and that is a dangerous piece of information to convey to the public.

Another confirmed positive...Bill Stepien, campaign manager for Donald. The image gets updated...

1601736182568.png
 

jtr1962

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We won't ever know how sick Donald Trump has been; they'll release a few press releases, and videos of him "hard at work", then he'll go back to The White House in triumph and say "see, it was just a bad cold."
Maybe but if anyone who got it dies it's going to be pretty hard to paper over that.
 

Newtun

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Former New Jersey governor Chris Christy checked into a hospital as a precautionary measure after announcing earlier today that he had tested positive for Covid-19. (Aside from being obese, he has asthma as another risk factor.)

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/03/politics/chris-christie-coronavirus said:
Christie was among a group of senior Trump campaign staffers who were tested Friday following news of the President's positive diagnosis. On Friday, the former Republican governor had said, "I feel fine and have no symptoms," and noted that he was last tested for Covid-19 on Tuesday and the results had been negative.
 

jtr1962

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Of course this is ending up being the Trump show, as usual:


 

Newtun

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We won't ever know how sick Donald Trump has been; they'll release a few press releases, and videos of him "hard at work", then he'll go back to The White House in triumph and say "see, it was just a bad cold."
And just as I predicted, he was helicoptered back to the White House Monday evening (Oct 5). He had tweeted that afternoon “Don’t be afraid of Covid. Don’t let it dominate your life.” Ref: https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/10/doctors-still-evasive-on-trumps-health-as-he-leaves-hospital
 

Handruin

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That fits the GOP narrative of making covid seem to be like it's a mild/minimal flu. To think the entire world conspired with the US Dems and shut down economies keeping people sheltered and masked just to impact trumps re-election.

Let's see what the next 10-15 days brings trump as he manages his covid recovery.
 

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If it kills around 1000 persons in the USA every day, I am sure it will dominate both the lives of the deceased and their relatives and friends?
 

jtr1962

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If it kills around 1000 persons in the USA every day, I am sure it will dominate both the lives of the deceased and their relatives and friends?
Not to mention the millions like myself who are still running their residences like a germ warfare lab.

This isn't going to be truly over until we have mass vaccinations and no new covid cases for at least a month. Optimistically, that isn't happening until mid 2021.
 

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The message from the Swedish authorities is that we will keep having restrictions for at least another year. And the infection rate is on the up.
 

jtr1962

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If this doesn't show what a heartless, unempathetic bastard Trump is, I don't know what does. I love the hubris also:

"I have instructed my representatives to stop negotiating until after the election when, immediately after I win, we will pass a major Stimulus Bill that focuses on hardworking Americans and Small Business."

I have a feeling that besides losing big time personally to Biden, the GOP will be the big losers here in Congress. The irony is Trump could have coasted to reelection if he had controlled the virus, which in turn would have minimized damage to the economy, and supported stimulus measures to minimize whatever damage did occur. Instead, he and the GOP blew it because:

1) They're fundamentally opposed to medicine and science, preferring instead to invent a ad-hoc approach based on their opinions, which of course was destined to fail big time.
2) They're ideologically opposed to giving money directly to ordinary citizens, even if doing so would provide better economic effects than giving it to businesses.
3) They feel any measures to protect against the virus give the appearance of weakness.
4) They saw the virus hitting blue states harder as an opportunity to show the laissez-faire approach used in the red states was valid. Of course, now the top 14 states in terms of cases per million people are red states, and 6 out the top 15 in terms of deaths per million people are red states, with the numbers climbing for red states far more rapidly. In actuality the lower population density in these states acts as a buffer to virus spread, so their handling is even worse than the numbers make it appear.

America is now a shining example to the rest of the world of what NOT to do to control this disease.
 

Newtun

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China joins global vaccine alliance, filling “leadership vacuum” left by Trump

"China joins around 170 other countries, leaving the US and Russia on the sidelines."​

So Trump and his good buddy Vlad are in charge of the COVID-vaccine fake news (as well as U.S. election sabotage). But Russia already has a vaccine (or claims to). It's OK, though, because Trump has promised us a vaccine by just after the election. Maybe that will be just after his promised The Wall to keep out evil immigrants from Mexico is finished.
 

Newtun

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Trump's COVID-19 Leadership Vacuum (and fake news) continues; 2 links from ArsTechnica:

On background, the White House says that herd immunity plan reflects its thinking.​

On Monday, the White House hosted a pandemic-focused call for the press "on background"—intended to provide a window into the administration's thinking, but not to provide quotes that could be attributed to any government official. During the call, the unspecified White House officials touted a document supporting the idea of herd immunity as a plan to control the pandemic, saying it reflected the administration's thinking.

The document, called the Great Barrington Declaration, was prepared by a libertarian think tank with the assistance of a handful of scientists who have been pushing the idea that COVID-19 isn't much of a threat. And it has attracted enough attention that the World Health Organization decided to address it. The result severely undercut whatever the White House intended to accomplish.

"Never in the history of public health has herd immunity been used as a strategy for responding to an outbreak, let alone a pandemic," the WHO's Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said. "It's scientifically and ethically problematic."

OAN reporter fired from FDA appointment is still at FDA, flouting rules
Miller promoted an unapproved drug given to Trump as “like a cure.”​

Back in August, the Food and Drug Administration ousted Emily Miller from her role as the agency’s top spokesperson. Miller, a right-wing activist and former One America News reporter, was installed in the FDA by the White House and given the role of assistant commissioner for media affairs, a role typically held by nonpartisan civil servants. She held the post for a mere 11 days and was fired amid intense controversy after several high-profile agency missteps.

But now it appears that Miller never left the FDA. She’s still at the regulatory agency and has since been given a new—perhaps more prestigious—title. And as before, she is causing problems for the agency.
 

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The accelerated mutation through a jump to a new species and back again is the sort of thing we are supposed to be afraid of with viral epidemics, and certainly that was the initial fear with SARS-CoV-2. Instead, we have been distracted by how surprisingly contagious it has turned out to be.
 

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I expected that the US would pass 100,000 new cases per day around the time of the election. Just had a look, and it passed that on Wednesday. Thursday was 113,500.
 

Handruin

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A classic example of #LeopardsAteMyFace

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - NDT
 

jtr1962

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What's going on is a federal government which is completely AWOL on the pandemic, combined with many state and local governments which are practically the same, or just refuse to enact measures to mitigate things because of some misguided notions about freedom and choice. Yes, it's a shit show here. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Trump hasn't attended a coronavirus task force meeting in over five months.

Thankfully, the incoming Biden administration is already having daily meetings, and will take the pandemic as its primary responsibility. Problem is we have two long months with Trump at the helm.
 

Newtun

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Today:
But he has had plenty of time this month to spew his lies, lawsuits, obstructionism, and venom about his losing the election.

He's the one that's trying to rig/cheat/steal the election, without any evidence of anything other than a fair election. Indeed, the U. S. government
Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) reviewed the election and concluded last week that it was "was the most secure in American history." Trump's response was to fire the head of the agency, Chris Krebs, this week. On Twitter.

But he doesn't have time to do anything about the grave COVID crisis.
 
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Will Rickards

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US hits 1million new cases in less than a week. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/11/21/health/us-coronavirus-saturday/index.html

WTF is going there?

Also todays paper reported that Donald Trump jr has tested positive as well?
If you look at the heat map of infections, it is mostly the middle of the country.
So this pattern of hitting the coast and moving inward then bouncing back to the coasts is happening.
People are just not being diligent about wearing masks / washing hands. Full Stop.
And since we're dependent on each other for public health, it continues to spread.
We can only contain it if everyone cooperates.

Combine this with lockdown/virus fatigue and you have a real problem.
We didn't get a large break for months like most other countries.
So mentally we're just not in a great space.

Add in the inept/criminal government response and it is just a disaster.
 

jtr1962

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People traveling for the holidays are another big problem. If we had a sane government response we would have shut down the airlines a week ago until early next year, and restricted travel on Interstate highways to only essential workers. The government may not have to explicitly ban gatherings if it instead simply prevents people from being able to travel.
 

sedrosken

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People traveling for the holidays are another big problem. If we had a sane government response we would have shut down the airlines a week ago until early next year, and restricted travel on Interstate highways to only essential workers. The government may not have to explicitly ban gatherings if it instead simply prevents people from being able to travel.
They'd never be able to enforce it, especially in the red states. Even removing the fiasco that was our governmental response, people in general don't trust the government enough to unilaterally obey everything it says. They'd screech about their freedoms (to kill grandma) until they went blue in the face and it'd be the end of it... Might have a few high-speed chases on the interstates to entertain us through the holidays.
 

Handruin

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People traveling for the holidays are another big problem. If we had a sane government response we would have shut down the airlines a week ago until early next year, and restricted travel on Interstate highways to only essential workers. The government may not have to explicitly ban gatherings if it instead simply prevents people from being able to travel.
The next best thing would have been to ramp up testing capabilities and reduce turnaround times. We've had 9 months to get that going, wtf. Loads of people in my town are trying to rush a last-minute covid testing for the holiday and the mess it's causing is crazy. They can test maybe 600 people a day at some of the test sites with two to three locations. My town has 70,000 people in it and the testing is open to anyone. I can't imagine what it's like in cities with millions of people.

The federal government could have invoked the defense production act, worked with the states to ramp up national guard for testing deployment and work to get testing out in the masses over those past 9 months. Figure out a plan to target the highest hit locations and move the testing to support the locations with the virus outbreak hotspots.
 

jtr1962

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Unfortunately, since we have none of those things the only option is to shut down-again-to slow the spread of the virus.

Trump and his followers have the ideology that government is bad, or at best useless. By putting incompetents into positions of power, that has become a self-fulfilling prophecy. It looks like Biden is going to reverse course on that by putting qualified people back in charge. It can't come soon enough.
 

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The next best thing would have been to ramp up testing capabilities and reduce turnaround times. We've had 9 months to get that going, wtf. Loads of people in my town are trying to rush a last-minute covid testing for the holiday and the mess it's causing is crazy. They can test maybe 600 people a day at some of the test sites with two to three locations. My town has 70,000 people in it and the testing is open to anyone. I can't imagine what it's like in cities with millions of people.

The federal government could have invoked the defense production act, worked with the states to ramp up national guard for testing deployment and work to get testing out in the masses over those past 9 months. Figure out a plan to target the highest hit locations and move the testing to support the locations with the virus outbreak hotspots.
My understanding is the DPA was "invoked"? But not to the extent that the government took actual control over companies, more as a stick to push them to start producing PPE.


Ultimately Cuomo was forced to admit that he got everything he requested from the Feds (including the Navy ship and converting the Jacobs center into a massive field hospital, both of which he never used, instead forcing nursing homes to take in at least 6000 covid infected, with no exceptions.

As for the testing, I think it can give people a false sense of security, oh I'm negative I can go visit grandma...when the reality is that you could still be infectious but not test positive, or the tests themselves produce a false negative (for example Elon Musk getting four tests the other day, two were positive, two negative, all taken by same nurse/procedure). It seems like the test accuracy could well be much poorer than the vaccines efficiency (reported to be over 90%).
 

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What's going on is a federal government which is completely AWOL on the pandemic, combined with many state and local governments which are practically the same, or just refuse to enact measures to mitigate things because of some misguided notions about freedom and choice. Yes, it's a shit show here. It's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

Trump hasn't attended a coronavirus task force meeting in over five months.

Thankfully, the incoming Biden administration is already having daily meetings, and will take the pandemic as its primary responsibility. Problem is we have two long months with Trump at the helm.
By "misguided notions about freedom and choice" you are referring to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?


Emporer Cuomo just got slapped down on 1st Amendment grounds from specifically targeting religious gatherings, when big box and liquor stores etc can run free.

"In a red zone, while a synagogue or church may not admit
more than 10 persons, businesses categorized as “essential”
may admit as many people as they wish. And the list of
“essential” businesses includes things such as acupuncture
facilities, camp grounds, garages, as well as many whose
services are not limited to those that can be regarded as es-
sential, such as all plants manufacturing chemicals and mi-
croelectronics and all transportation facilities."

As for Bidens incoming team, looks like he's hired on a bunch of old boys and girls from the Obama regime? Will be interesting to see how the 3rd term of Obama (by proxy) goes.
 

jtr1962

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By "misguided notions about freedom and choice" you are referring to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights?


Emporer Cuomo just got slapped down on 1st Amendment grounds from specifically targeting religious gatherings, when big box and liquor stores etc can run free.

"In a red zone, while a synagogue or church may not admit
more than 10 persons, businesses categorized as “essential”
may admit as many people as they wish. And the list of
“essential” businesses includes things such as acupuncture
facilities, camp grounds, garages, as well as many whose
services are not limited to those that can be regarded as es-
sential, such as all plants manufacturing chemicals and mi-
croelectronics and all transportation facilities."

As for Bidens incoming team, looks like he's hired on a bunch of old boys and girls from the Obama regime? Will be interesting to see how the 3rd term of Obama (by proxy) goes.
The government has a very far reaching set of powers to deal with emergencies like this:


It sounds like the Supreme Court ruled against treating religious gatherings differently than so-called essential businesses, not against having any restrictions at all for them. This can easily by fixed by treating all places the same as far as number of persons allowed, or better yet just shutting down everything non-essential. Bars, tattoo parlors, acupuncture clinics, places of worship, camps, etc. are all non-essential. You need grocery stores so people can eat. You need emergency medical services. You need energy suppliers. You need many types of manufacturing facilities. So long as you treat places of worship the same as non-essential businesses, it should be constitutional. Frankly, places of worship, bars, tatto parlors, and other similar things should have shut down when the pandemic started and remained shut down until a vaccine is widely distributed. None of these things are even remotely essential but all are superspreader venues.

As for the Biden presidency being like Obama's third term, that may or may not be true. If the Dems can get those two seats in Georgia, they will control the Senate. That means they can get a lot more done than Obama did. They just need to avoid enacting any far left stuff if they wish to retain control of Congress after 2022. Stick to "safe" stuff like infrastructure, some health care reforms, or stuff the GOP can't undo, like cancelling student loans. Forget gun control or open borders or most of the stuff AOC et all espouses. They can probably also enact some parts of the Green New Deals since it will create lots of jobs. Once those jobs are created, it's going to be very hard for the GOP to say let's roll back this stuff and go back to oil and coal. They may have to just go along with it even if they get control of Congress.
 
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jtr1962

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By the way it's stuff like this that I'm mostly referring to when I talk about "misguided notions of freedom and choice":


The Florida governor not only won't enact a statewide mask mandate, but won't even let localities do so. Enjoy being king of a poison realm, Mr. DeSantis. Seriously, this kind of stuff is just a new level of stupid. Hats off to the GOP governors who saw through this stupidly and followed the advice of experts.

 

DrunkenBastard

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The Florida governor not only won't enact a statewide mask mandate, but won't even let localities do so. Enjoy being king of a poison realm, Mr. DeSantis. Seriously, this kind of stuff is just a new level of stupid. Hats off to the GOP governors who saw through this stupidly and followed the advice of experts.
This sounded crazy to me, it looks like Florida localities are indeed free to put in mask mandates, but aren't allowed to issue fines for violators.

 

jtr1962

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Not being able to enforce them is as good as them not even existing. Also, leadership starts at the top. If the governor of a state doesn't offer good guidance, a lot of people won't comply with voluntary guidelines.
 

DrunkenBastard

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It sounds like the Supreme Court ruled against treating religious gatherings differently than so-called essential businesses, not against having any restrictions at all for them. This can easily by fixed by treating all places the same as far as number of persons allowed, or better yet just shutting down everything non-essential. Bars, tattoo parlors, acupuncture clinics, places of worship, camps, etc. are all non-essential. You need grocery stores so people can eat. You need emergency medical services. You need energy suppliers. You need many types of manufacturing facilities. So long as you treat places of worship the same as non-essential businesses, it should be constitutional. Frankly, places of worship, bars, tatto parlors, and other similar things should have shut down when the pandemic started and remained shut down until a vaccine is widely distributed. None of these things are even remotely essential but all are superspreader venues.

As for the Biden presidency being like Obama's third term, that may or may not be true. If the Dems can get those two seats in Georgia, they will control the Senate. That means they can get a lot more done than Obama did. They just need to avoid enacting any far left stuff if they wish to retain control of Congress after 2022. Stick to "safe" stuff like infrastructure, some health care reforms, or stuff the GOP can't undo, like cancelling student loans. Forget gun control or open borders or most of the stuff AOC et all espouses. They can probably also enact some parts of the Green New Deals since it will create lots of jobs. Once those jobs are created, it's going to be very hard for the GOP to say let's roll back this stuff and go back to oil and coal. They may have to just go along with it even if they get control of Congress.
Yes, its a violation of the equal protection clause. The governor is not allowed to make these restrictions on religious gathering numbers based on arbitrary reasons pulled out of his ass.


"The majority said that the regulations are "far more restrictive than any Covid-related regulations that have previously come before the court, much tighter than those adopted by many other jurisdictions hard hit by the pandemic, and far more severe than has been shown to be required to prevent the spread of the virus" at the religious services in question."
 

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That's just complete rubbish, and solid evidence of the new Supreme Court operating on ideology rather than facts.

Even Iran closed places of worship. And I can't see any religious discrimination here - none of the other venues cited are likely to have more than 10 people in one closed space, let alone ones who are chanting and/or singing.

I'd be deeply concerned about any religious organization that feels it should be above the interests of society as a whole. They shouldn't need a formal edict to persuade them to limit their assemblies, it tells you a lot about the entitlement and nutjobbery of the leadership.
 

jtr1962

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That's just complete rubbish, and solid evidence of the new Supreme Court operating on ideology rather than facts.

Even Iran closed places of worship. And I can't see any religious discrimination here - none of the other venues cited are likely to have more than 10 people in one closed space, let alone ones who are chanting and/or singing.
I was thinking the same. As far as I know nobody on the Supreme Court has the qualifications to evaluate covid-related restrictions with regard to their efficacy. It's just the "new" Supreme court flexing their muscles. I'm really disappointed that the GOP rushed the appointment of a religious zealot to a lifetime position carrying great power. I wonder if there's any procedure the Dems can do to have her removed, should they gain control of the Senate? Remove Kavanaugh while they're at it. His past antics render him unqualified to serve. Sure, he was young at the time, but so were we all. I didn't spend my college days sexually assaulting females. If I did, I expect it would render me unfit for any high positions in public service.

I'd be deeply concerned about any religious organization that feels it should be above the interests of society as a whole. They shouldn't need a formal edict to persuade them to limit their assemblies, it tells you a lot about the entitlement and nutjobbery of the leadership.
Religion is a cult, and religious indoctrination of minors is a form of brainwashing which in any other context would be considered abuse of minors. Trust me on that, I went though it as a child. Because of it, I wish we could make religious indoctrination of minors illegal, or at the very least allow them to opt out, even if it's against their parents' wishes. Entitlement and putting their interests on a higher plane (i.e. above those of society) is the only way religions can survive. I heard a pastor in another state say he only answers to God when asked about not following covid guidelines at his church.
 
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DrunkenBastard

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That's just complete rubbish, and solid evidence of the new Supreme Court operating on ideology rather than facts.

Even Iran closed places of worship. And I can't see any religious discrimination here - none of the other venues cited are likely to have more than 10 people in one closed space, let alone ones who are chanting and/or singing.

I'd be deeply concerned about any religious organization that feels it should be above the interests of society as a whole. They shouldn't need a formal edict to persuade them to limit their assemblies, it tells you a lot about the entitlement and nutjobbery of the leadership.
You don't have the facts time. The churches have been limiting their services. Churches were closed along with many other locations until July 5th, at which point they re-opened at 25% of capacity, with social distancing in place.


The issue is the new additional restrictions as driven by executive action by the governor that have been found to violate the equal protection clause of the First Amendment then moved that 25% capacity limit to a potential max of 10 people. So a church with a capacity of 1000, that had a limit of 250, is now down to 10. While this limit doesnt apply to other secular businesses, say for example an "essential" Home Depot or Walmart, could easily have hundreds of people in their stores, right next door. I'm not a religious person but I can clearly see an unfair situation here.

"The Court explained the facts underlying its decision, specifically referring to testimony given before the District Court by a health department official, who testified that “a large store in Brooklyn that could ‘literally have hundreds of people shopping there on any given day,’” while religious gatherings were limited to 10 or 25 people. The Court also distinguished the New York cases from other cases previously before it regarding other COVID-19 measures."

It is absolutely the Supreme Courts role to adjudicate in matters where a governor is acting against the Constitution. There's lots of talk about Trump being a dictator but we are seeing this very same behaviour exhibited by several state leaders.

As Gorsuch said:

“Governor has chosen to impose no capacity restrictions on certain businesses he considers ‘essential,'” commented Gorsuch, “And it turns out the businesses the Governor considers essential include hardware stores, acupuncturists, and liquor stores. Bicycle repair shops, certain signage companies, accountants, lawyers, and insurance agents are all essential too.”
Gorsuch went on:
“So, at least according to the Governor, it may be unsafe to go to church, but it is always fine to pick up another bottle of wine, shop for a new bike, or spend the afternoon exploring your distal points and meridians. Who knew public health would so perfectly align with secular convenience?”
 
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