Audio Equipment

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,468
Location
Michigan
Doug, will you be going with a perforated screen in front of your tower center? Its definitely the way to go if you dont have to compromise with a horizontal center channel under your display.
I'm pretty sure perforated screens are passe. Woven screens are what people are using now for acoustical transparency.
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
12,951
Location
USA
Yes, that's my current plan. I have been reviewing the different brands of screens (Elite, Stewart, etc) and the different AT types (woven vs perforated) as well as the specific gain value. My tentative plan is to go with 135"-140" fixed frame screen that works will with a UHD projector. I'm targeting the BenQ HT3550 as the projector when it becomes generally available. My guess is in the next month or so. My room will be light-controlled with darkening curtains and paint and I'm planning some DIY sound absorbing wall panels and likely some for the ceiling.

My room size is roughly 25' long by 12.5' wide with the plans to have two rows of seats that each hold 3 people. The back row will be lifted higher via a platform I plan to build.

I've started looking through the diysoundgroup but their offerings are a little confusing with regards to the components I need to order to build the main speakers. I need to spend some more time looking through what they offer including your suggestion. I am curious about these kits...I've heard of the Overnight Sensations (not for my HT) which they list but didn't know it made it into an official kit on a website like this.

Original plan for speakers prior to your post was as follows:
Dolby Atoms 7.4.2 setup
L, C, R: SVS Prime Pinnacle
Left side, right side, Left rear, Right rear: SVS prime bookshelf (or maybe the ultras)
Height front left, Height front right, Height left rear, Height right rear: RSL c34e ceiling
Two subs: ported PSU V1811 (I need to do more research before committing)

I'm familiar with PSA with respect to their subwoofers, I already own one of their earlier 15" sealed subs that I use in my office with my Emotiva Airmotiv 4 speakers. I have no experience with their tower speakers.
 

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,468
Location
Michigan
Yes, that's my current plan. I have been reviewing the different brands of screens (Elite, Stewart, etc) and the different AT types (woven vs perforated) as well as the specific gain value. My tentative plan is to go with 135"-140" fixed frame screen that works will with a UHD projector. I'm targeting the BenQ HT3550 as the projector when it becomes generally available. My guess is in the next month or so. My room will be light-controlled with darkening curtains and paint and I'm planning some DIY sound absorbing wall panels and likely some for the ceiling.
Why are you looking at a crappy DLP projector?

I've started looking through the diysoundgroup but their offerings are a little confusing with regards to the components I need to order to build the main speakers. I need to spend some more time looking through what they offer including your suggestion. I am curious about these kits...
It's pretty easy. You buy the kit and the flat pack (assuming you don't want to build your own enclosure from scratch). It looks like a few of them require you to buy the circuit board for the crossover separately.
 
Last edited:

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
12,951
Location
USA
The info I've read does not suggest it is crappy. For this price point this is one of the top contenders. What do you suggest that is not $10K for a 4K projector.
 

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,468
Location
Michigan
The info I've read does not suggest it is crappy. For this price point this is one of the top contenders. What do you suggest that is not $10K for a 4K projector.
Anything not DLP. DLP is stuck to like 15 years ago when it comes to contrast. The current projectors are actually worse than the peak of DLP technology. Additionally, the DLP projectors are not actually 4k. They're faux-K. They pixel shift to fake 4k. Some are actually only using 1920x1080 chips and shifting them into 4 positions. Others are something like QHD and shift into two positions.

I would recommend the JVC DILA projectors. If you get the opportunity to see one of the JVC's against one of these DLP's in a fully light controlled room with low IRE content you will understand.
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
12,951
Location
USA
Some of that may be true for older DLP projectors however the BenQ HT3550 uses an updated .47” 4K DLP DMD which does pixel shift but you get native 4K without the grey border. Given the price and performance of this projector, it's not worth me spending 2-4x the price on a JVC and just wait for those to come down in price and upgrade when the tech gets better. The least expensive JVC is also a faux 4K pixel shifter and they're $3-$4K.
 

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,468
Location
Michigan
Some of that may be true for older DLP projectors however the BenQ HT3550 uses an updated .47” 4K DLP DMD which does pixel shift but you get native 4K without the grey border. Given the price and performance of this projector, it's not worth me spending 2-4x the price on a JVC and just wait for those to come down in price and upgrade when the tech gets better. The least expensive JVC is also a faux 4K pixel shifter and they're $3-$4K.
Sorry, but TI doesn't have a .47" native 4K DLP. They're being very misleading in their marketing material. Look at page 20 of the datasheet: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/dlp470te.pdf It is 1920x1080.

There's not a single consumer grade DLP projector that has competitive contrast performance. There's nothing special about this HT3550. All non sequential DLPs have bad performance. It's inherent to the technology, which is way behind where LCOS is.

The JVC is worth the extra money. Even if you get one that's not native UHD/4k and has eshift. Contrast is king. Go audition them in the same room fully light controlled room on the same screen instead of believing the marketing material.
 

DrunkenBastard

Storage is cool
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
645
Location
on the floor
Some of that may be true for older DLP projectors however the BenQ HT3550 uses an updated .47” 4K DLP DMD which does pixel shift but you get native 4K without the grey border. Given the price and performance of this projector, it's not worth me spending 2-4x the price on a JVC and just wait for those to come down in price and upgrade when the tech gets better. The least expensive JVC is also a faux 4K pixel shifter and they're $3-$4K.
Bang for the buck remains with dlps. You will generally get more brightness for a given $ versus JVC and Sony lcos. Which in this day of HDR content can come in handy. That said I'm still tempted by a quality 1080p lcos projector like the sony 45es for 2k, with basically silent fans. My theater is silent except for the projector fan. Had a 1080p benq 1075 initially in 2014, for the price its hard to complain. Then in 2017 tried an Optoma UHD60. 4k discs looked pretty good, however there was the light mask issue as you mentioned and also the 4k switching on the dlp chip caused an annoying high pitched whine that was audible when the projector was table mounted. Also didn't have an rgbrgb color wheel. Ended up returning for refund.
 

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,468
Location
Michigan
Bang for the buck remains with dlps. You will generally get more brightness for a given $ versus JVC and Sony lcos. Which in this day of HDR content can come in handy. That said I'm still tempted by a quality 1080p lcos projector like the sony 45es for 2k, with basically silent fans. My theater is silent except for the projector fan. Had a 1080p benq 1075 initially in 2014, for the price its hard to complain. Then in 2017 tried an Optoma UHD60. 4k discs looked pretty good, however there was the light mask issue as you mentioned and also the 4k switching on the dlp chip caused an annoying high pitched whine that was audible when the projector was table mounted. Also didn't have an rgbrgb color wheel. Ended up returning for refund.
There is no bang for the buck with DLPs unless your criteria is simply projecting a big image for cheap. They have unacceptable performance for a light controlled theater.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,165
Location
USA
The link was there at some point. It's a different type of gremlin from SF. ;)
I suppose you feel that I used the wrong symbolism for inches? I saw some with various sizes up to the 88 inches.
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
12,951
Location
USA
To get a cinematic wow factor a projector and screen are the more economical way to get to 110-200" screen. TVs just can't get there in any reasonable price range.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,165
Location
USA
Well that only happens at SF, so it is not normal. :(

Anyway, the imperialist system of units is so bogus I'm amazed it still exists. I'll try to remember to use cm or text inches in the future.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,165
Location
USA
To get a cinematic wow factor a projector and screen are the more economical way to get to 110-200" screen. TVs just can't get there in any reasonable price range.
Wow, you must really like film and have a large room for that. How many lumens does it take to make a bright image at that humongous size?
 

Handruin

Administrator
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
12,951
Location
USA
The room is roughly 12.5' by 25'. I would say 1800-2000 lumens should work in a properly light controlled room with a 135" screen.
 

DrunkenBastard

Storage is cool
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
645
Location
on the floor
The gain of the screen can help, the other thing to watch for is the dimming of the bulb over time, a virgin bulb may get the job done but as hours build, output will drop off.

Have you played with the projector central website tool that lets you estimate what results you will get with the projector you are looking at? Takes into account projector throw, zoom range etc.

Also watch out for rated lumens in max brightness mode versus what you will get once tweaked for an optimum image.
 

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,468
Location
Michigan
I discovered today while moving some equipment around so I can paint the walls that I have the L & R speakers wired to each other's output on the back of my Denon. I guess it's been that way since I swapped over to it from the last one several months ago.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,165
Location
USA
Are they out of phase or just right is on the left side of the room? If the latter don't you notice the violins and instruments not in the right place or is this for video?
 

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,468
Location
Michigan
Are they out of phase or just right is on the left side of the room? If the latter don't you notice the violins and instruments not in the right place or is this for video?
Effectively front L & R were swapped in the room. I listen to music and watch video on it. Not sure how I didn't notice, but I never noticed anything on the screen panning opposite of the sound.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,165
Location
USA
I want a pair decent speakers for TV and occasional audio.
They can be up to about 10kg ea. though 8kg is better.
From what I read speakers with 5.25' drivers are lacking in bass compared to the 6.5 drivers.
Sub woofers are not a consideration. Absolute highs are not audible at my age though I want a domed tweeter or similar function that will disperse the highs really well off axis. Thanks .
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,165
Location
USA
I mean that is what would be supported and not too difficult to work with.
I have some kind of older Yamaha with the HDMI inputs.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,165
Location
USA
$700 per pair or less would be good, but $1000 for a pair is fine if that makes much difference. I'm currently using some kind of 2-way 5.25 speakers from about 10 years ago that were pretty cheap, IIRC about $150 for both. They weigh less than 10 lbs. ea. and don't sound very good now that I have the digitals. :sick: When I was analog I thought the muddiness was due to the source, but apparently not.
 
Last edited:

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,468
Location
Michigan
$700 per pair or less would be good, but $1000 for a pair is fine if that makes much difference. I'm currently using some kind of 2-way 5.25 speakers from about 10 years ago that were pretty cheap, IIRC about $150 for both. They weigh less than 10 lbs. ea. and don't sound very good now that I have the digitals. :sick: When I was analog I thought the muddiness was due to the source, but apparently not.
I'm hesitant to recommend speakers I haven't heard plus I don't know your preferences or how picky you are...

That said, I would consider these given your criteria:

https://www.elac.com/product/b6-2/
https://www.polkaudio.com/products/rtia3
https://www.polkaudio.com/products/s20
https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-bookshelf
https://www.svsound.com/products/ultra-bookshelf
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,165
Location
USA
Thanks. That is a good place a to start and I have been relatively devoid since the 80s. It certainly is a reminder audio it is a slippery slope.
What are your thoughts on the reflex tube front vs. rear?
 

Stereodude

Not really a
Joined
Jan 22, 2002
Messages
10,468
Location
Michigan
Thanks. That is a good place a to start and I have been relatively devoid since the 80s. It certainly is a reminder audio it is a slippery slope.
What are your thoughts on the reflex tube front vs. rear?
Did you end up buying anything?

I got taken in by this deal even though I certainly don't need more speakers. I couldn't help myself. :whistle:
 
Top