receipt checker's

[Handruin]

Today I encountered an interesting situation which I'd like to share. I recall reading a discussion about this on SR a while back.

In any case, today a friend and I set out to go to a computer exposition in Boston. It was a decent show, but there wasn't anything I really wanted to buy. Most of the PC equipment was white-box or out of anti-static bag PC boards. They had a few monitors, most of which are refurb's and plenty of LED lit cases.

So I ended up spending a grand total of $1.05 on these 3M sticky hooks to wrap up some cables in the back of my desk. My friend also bought some of these for the same price.

We walked around for another 30 to 45 minutes until we decided to leave. On our way out there was a security guard who demanded to see a receipt. My friend was in front of me so they checked one of his receipts, but he couldn't find one of them for the 1-dollar wire clips we bought.

The security guard stated that we could not leave unless my friend had a receipt. So I became angry and I told the guy that he could not see my receipt and that he would have to take my word on what I bought. He proceeded to tell me no one can leave without having their receipt checked, so we argued that there is no visible sign stating a receipt is required to exit. I ask very firmly if he was accusing me of stealing, and he responded with, "no, I just can't see what is in your bag...why do you think I am here?

I should have responded that it was none of his damn business... what I buy doesn't concern him. However, that is hindsight. I continued to explain that if you need to check my bag, then you are accusing me of stealing.

So another security guard (these were not police officers) comes over and calls someone on the phone saying we wouldn't show receipts. This guy didn't give me any trouble, but he wasn't quite sure how to handle me along with the conflict I brought to them. So it turns out my friend found his receipt and the guy said he wouldn't let me leave...I turned to his right and walked right out the door. As I walked away I overheard the second security guard saying on the phone that I had walked out the door without having my receipt checked. After that, we got in my car and drove away...they never perused the situation.

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Now, what would the rest of you done in this situation? I had two paths to chose from when I got to the door.

A.) I show my receipt and we leave in peace

B.) I do not show my receipt and discover what the consequence is.

Now I feel some of you will say that this was way too simple of a situation to bother starting a fight. (Not a physical fight, I wouldn't have gone that far...unless I needed to defend myself) Out of curiousity, I wanted to see what would happen. I've never stolen anything in my life and I have no criminal record...I figured this would be the closet I'd come to a law breaking incident. (although I I don't think I was even close to breaking the law)

So, I chose the un-traveled road and I took the challenge to see what they would do. I felt I was in my right and that they were going to perform an illegal search. I also felt it was unlawful to detain me, as they are not the law. Had it been a police officer, I would have complied, but since it wasn't, I did not.

My initial plan, had they gone to the extreme would have been to threaten law suite. I would have made them call the police and I would have (if possible) pressed charges for detaining me and for accusing me of shoplifting.

In the end nothing came of this situation, which was probably good. I have a tendency to get a stubborn mindset on things like these. I may have been ridiculous, but when I stop and think about it...I've learned something today. I learned how to deal with an uncomfortable situation that I tend not to put myself in.

 

[jtr1962]

It's a shame we live in a society where there are enough dishonest people to make the honest ones suffer through nonsense like bag and receipt checking. I generally show a receipt if asked, but I believe the security guards have no power whatsoever to detain you unless they have actually seen you shoplift. If you refuse to show a receipt and then just leave they don't have the authority to follow you off the premises. Again, they may be allowed to follow you off the site only if they or someone else has seen you shoplift, but even here I'm not 100% sure if they can. Refusal to show a receipt does not necessarily prove one is guilty of anything.

While receipt checking is OK with me I would most certainly not let one of those rent-a-cops search any bag I was carrying except for the shopping bag of the store in question(in order to check if the items matched those on my receipt). Furthermore, I draw the line at going through metal detectors or anything similarly invasive. For those reasons I refuse to serve on jury duty and I would never fly. Actually, I would never fly for a whole host of reasons but even if planes were 100% safe and non-polluting I still wouldn't use them as long as the current security procedures remained in effect.

Your experience is a commentary on the kind of sick, paranoid society we live in. What kind of a world is it where we need metal detectors at high schools, for example? I don't have any easy answers here, but rather a question-why does such a large segment of the population feel the need to steal or do harm to others? If we can come up with an answer to that, maybe security measures would be as quaint as the horse and buggy. Another observation-people tend to act as they are treated. Maybe treating people like criminals without just cause makes them inclined to act in the very way that is trying to be prevented.

 

[Handruin]

One interesting point I found was that the receipt I had contained no information of the products I bought other than the price.

How would the guard determine if I had stolen anything anyway? I can't prove the item I bought based on the receipt except for the price.

They are there as a scare tacktic. I shouldn't have even acknoledged him in the first place and continued walking. I would have done so had my friend not been there. He had no problem showing the guard his receipt, except he couldn't find it.

I have mixed feelings on metal detectors and bag screen when entering the premises of a public event or facility. On one hand I don't like the violation, however on the other hand I know every is going through the same process to screen out the potentially harmful items that could make their way in. It all works down to one person ruining it fo the rest.

Where's Santilli...I thought he was involved in law some way? Maybe he might know if receipt checking is valid/legal.

 

[Santilli]

Hmm.

Good question. Metal detectors at public places. Usually you know they are there, like a court building. All I can think of in these situations is that any robber knows that anyone coming out of the building, not LEO, does not have a gun.

Good place to rob.

Checking at leaving the premise, to make sure the receipt matches the items purchased? Implied consent by you entering Costco, or whatever.

Also, when you enter a store, you are entering to purchase products.
If by accident, or, if your friend works at the register, this provides an effective means of double checking the purchase.

the only time I've noticed a person being stopped was when the person found he had a bunch of water on his cart, that wasn't on the receipt.

He insisted that it was his, regardless if he had paid for it or not. In other words, because the cashier made a mistake, he was entitled to the product :roll: People like that are why stores need checkers.

Kalifornia, and most states allow a store owner to detain you, to determine if you have stolen property, for a limited period of time, and, you better have realistic, probable cause.

Generally the way these things are determined are a balancing test.

Is the invaision of privacy balanced against the utility of the states motives. I can't for the life of me, remember the exact wording. I'd flunk the bar on this one.

In other words the state has intrests: protecting, and policing, it's people, etc. Does the slight invasion of the person, if there is one here, which I doubt, justify the result of the invasion? However, that balancing test is reserved for the state agencies invaision of your rights, and privacy.
Some states do have the right to privacy in their Constitutions, unlike our Federal documents, that just imply it.

Chances are we would never get that far. Simply put, you give your implied consent to be checked the minute you walk in the door. Upon entry, it's real clear that someone, at least at Costco, is going to check you as you go out. If you don't like it, shop somewhere else. Also, the only person that is likely to be effected by this issue is someone that steals. I think the store should make it clear upon purchase that the reciept is neccessary to leave the store, since some people throw them away, asap.

The one I worry about is being checked, without my knowledge, by a metal detector, and action stemming from that.
That's an issue I should do research on...

gs