Pocket Tank

simonstre

What is this storage?
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Mar 31, 2002
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I've just made the acquisition of an Epson notebook (or if you prefer, a pocket tank...) I was quite... ahem... furious to see that it doesn't have any OS on it. Not that I don't know how to install one with a CD-ROM drive. The problem is that I don't actually have any CD-ROM... I'd like to install Win98 on it, but from a LAN location.

Another big problem is that I can't see my hole HD. It's a 486 DX2 66 Mhz (if someone laugh, I'll get mad :) ), and the bios is unabled to set the correct size automatically. So, if someone remembers what are the settings to connect to a network via DOS... :roll:

It's quite a crappy "notebook", but it fits my needs. Thanks!
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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Best thing I can tell you is to make a LAN Manager boot disk with drivers for your NIC, if possible. Bootdisk.com has one set up for a 3COM PCMCIA nic, but I can help you if you need something different than that. DOS drivers + LAN Manager client is a major PITA to set up.
 

timwhit

Hairy Aussie
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To get the whole use of the hard drive, since the bios is not seeing it you can use easy drive or another hard drive utility like that.

I would reccomend that you use Win95B on the laptop since it is so slow. 95B has Fat32 and all the other important fixes and runs a bit faster than 98.
 

jtr1962

Storage? I am Storage!
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If the HD is >528MB then that is likely the reason the BIOS doesn't see all of it. IIRC, any machine made in 1994 or earlier can't read any HD greater than 1024 cyl, 16 hd, 63 sec, which works out to 528MB, or 504 MB if you prefer to use the more common, but technically incorrect 1 MB=10^20 bytes = 1048576 bytes.

There are five possible solutions here:

1)Get a BIOS update(probably not likely given the age of the machine)

2)Get an LBA card, such as the Promise EIDEMAX, from eBay(not possible if your machine has no ISA slots)

3)Use drive overlay software

4)Just use 528 MB of the drive(acceptable if the drive is only marginally larger, say 600 MB)

5)It may also be possible to partition the drive on a machine that can recognize all of it. Make the first partition <528 MB(504 MB in fdisk), install Win98(or Win 95B). If I remember correctly, once the 32-bit drivers load when Windows is booting up, you should be able to access and use the other partitions. I know this worked for me on a machine that would only recognize up to 8.4GB of an 18.2GB drive, but I'm not sure if it would work on a machine that only recognizes 528 MB, since such a machine would not use LBA. The machine I did this on was a Pentium that was capable of addressing the hard disk in either CHS, extended CHS, or LBA.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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It could also be that the drive is larger than 2GB (e.g. a replacement drive) and that it's been formatted FAT16.
 

simonstre

What is this storage?
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Mar 31, 2002
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Mercutio, could you give me a hint on which bootdisk I should take on Bootdisk.com? My NIC is a Megahertz XJ10BC/XJ10BT PCMCIA. I want to boot locally but with an access to a remote computer... Is that what you understood? I'm not sure I was clear in my previous post :)


jtr182, you're right, my HD is a 2go. I've tried to make a partition on it with fdisk, but I can't set the size bigger than 504mo... I'll try to find a BIOS update, since I don't know how to use a software utility like EasyDrive. Thanks for your help!
 

jtr1962

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Dozer said:
simonstre said:
It's a 486 DX2 66 Mhz

Wow! I guess I'm not the lowball guy anymore...the Epson definitely beats my P90! :eek:

I have a 386-40 that I use very occasionally. I actually "upgraded" it with some parts from eBay-a 40 MHz Math Coprocessor and a Cyrix 486 upgrade. My everyday machines are a P200 MMX and a PII-450(looking to upgrade with a PIII-800 or 850 processor, if I can get one cheap).

I also have a Compaq 8086 8 MHz in working condition, complete with VGA color monitor and 2(!) 20 MB 5.25" MFM hard drives that one of my neighbors got rid of a few years ago. Not terrible useful for anything other than text files, but still a blast to start up. The sounds of the old stepper motor drives give the machine character. :) Sounds sort of like morse code. 8)
 

Tea

Storage? I am Storage!
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Hmmm... I can get older and slower than that without too much trouble. Well, if I raid Tannin's collection I can. I think the lowest-tech thing he has that is still in working order is his 4MHz Z-80 box from 1985. But that's not old. 1970s is old.

But wait! There is his 2MHz Z80 portable! An Amust Executive 816. I posted pictures of it over on SR a while back. That's from, er, probably 1979, I think. All fits in a custom-made briefcase and it still goes just fine.

Speaking of multi-tasking and advanced operting systems (as we were in another thread), it runs CP/M 2.2 and has 64k RAM.

Miles older than a Commodore 64, though a VIC-20 might run it close. Is there a TRS-80 Model II in the house?

(And Fushigi, mainframes need not apply.:))
 

i

Wannabe Storage Freak
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I've got a TRS-80 in storage.

It runs at a stunning 0.91 MHz. I forget who the CPU manufacturer was ... I believe it was Motorola.

Woohoo! Extended Color BASIC! Now _that_ was an awesome OS. :)
 

Tea

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A Co-Co, i? The incredibly ancient Tannin seems to think that they ran a very unusal and rather elegant little chip - was it a 6809? I think it was. Yes, here it is:

Part VI: The 6809, extending the 680x (1977) . . . . . . . .

Like the 6502, the 6809 was based on the Motorola 6800 (August 1974), though the 6809 expanded the design significantly. The 6809 had two 8 bit accumulators (A & B) and could combine them into a single 16 bit register (D). It also featured two index registers (X & Y) and two stack pointers (S & U), which allowed for some very advanced addressing modes (The 6800 had A & B (and D) accumulators, one index register and one stack register). The 6809 was source compatible with the 6800, even though the 6800 had 78 instructions and the 6809 only had around 59. Some instructions were replaced by more general ones which the assembler would translate, and some were even replaced by addressing modes. While the 6800 and 6502 both had a fast 8 bit mode to address the first 256 bytes of RAM, the 6809 had an 8 bit Direct Page register to locate this fast address page anywhere in the 64K address space.

Other features were one of the first multiplication instructions of the time, 16 bit arithmetic, and a special fast interrupt. But it was also highly optimized, gaining up to five times the speed of the 6800 series CPU. Like the 6800, it included the undocumented HCF (Halt Catch Fire) instruction to incrementally strobe the address lines for bus testing ("jump to accumulator (A or B)" in the 6800, implemented and documented as $00 in the 68HC11 which is described below).

The 6800 and 6809, like the 6502 series, used a single clock cycle to generate the timing for four internal execution stages by using the rising and falling edges of the base cycle (not just rising edges), and another clock 90 degrees out of phase (giving two rising and two falling edges per cycle) - this allowed instructions to execute in one external 'cycle' rather than four for most CPUs, such as the 8080, which used the external clock directly, so an equivalent instruction would take four cycles, meaning a 2MHz 6809 would be roughly equivalent to a 8MHz 8080. This is different from clock-doubling, which uses a phase-locked-loop to generate a faster internal clock (for the CPU) which is synchronised with an external clock (for the bus). Motorola later produced CPUs in this line with a standard four-cycle clock. The 680x and 650x only accessed memory every other cycle, allowing a peripheral (such as video, or even a second cpu) to access the same memory without conflict.

The 6800 lived on as well, becoming the 6801/3, which included ROM, some RAM, a serial I/O port, and other goodies on the chip (as an embedded controller, minimizing part counts - but expensive at 35,000 transistors. The 6805 was a cheaper 6801/3, dropping seldom used instructions and features). Later the 68HC11 version (two 8 bit/one 16 bit data register, two 16 bit index, and one 16 bit stack register, and an expanded instruction set with 16 bit multiply operations) was extended to 16 bits as the 68HC16 (additional 16-bit accumulator E, three index registers IX, IY, IZ, plus extension registers to add 4 bits to addresses and accumulator E for a 1M address space, plus 16-bit multiply registers HR and IR and 36-bit AM accumulator), and a lower cost 16 bit 68HC12 (May 1996). It remains a popular embedded processor (with over 2 billion 6800 varients sold), and radiation hardened versions of the 68HC11 have been used in communications satellites. But the 6809 was a very fast and flexible chip for its time, particularly with the addition of the OS-9 operating system.

(From Great Microprocessors of the Past and Present: http://www3.sk.sympatico.ca/jbayko/cpu1.html#Sec1Part6 )

That's old, my friend. Older than my Amstrad Z-80, which is no spring chicken, but probably not as old as Tannin's Amust Executive 816.
 

Fushigi

Storage Is My Life
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My oldest system is my current and only system. It started life as a Zenith Z-151 XT-compatible. 320K RAM, dual 360K FDD, CGA, MS-DOS 2.11. Been upgrading it ever since to it's current T-bird 1.4, 256MB DDR, X15 & 10KII, GF2GTS, and ATX case. After 14 years I replaced the original Logitech C7 with a MouseMan version; my sister still uses the C7 even though it's about 17 years old now.

At work I've used everything from XTs to my current P4 notebook, with notebooks/laptops dominating since the early 90s when I started using a Zenith 286 laptop (with about a 6 pound battery).

I've used TRS-80 Model 2s & 3s, Commodore C64s & VIC-20s, even a Timex-Sinclair 1000. My first true work was done on Apple ][s and later the ][+ and ][e.

(And Fushigi, mainframes need not apply.)
The 400 wasn't released until 1988 so it doesn't really qualify as being all that old. It was based on the S/36 & S/38, though, and at least the 36 goes back to the 70s. I've done a few migrations from 36 to 400 but otherwise haven't touched the 36 platform.

- Fushigi
 

P5-133XL

Xmas '97
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I want my original computer a DEC PDP-8/L (circa 1972-75) with all the trimmings: i.e teletype & paper tape reader. I have Very fond memories and would like to relive/torcher the past.

Anyone here got one that works and I can buy.
 

P5-133XL

Xmas '97
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I didn't own it. That was my High School that owned it. In high school I was considered a "computer freek". Sold my first program there, for daily lunch donuts for a school year, to a fellow student that wanted to impress his math class (it calculated logrithums and he wanted to claim it was his work). Wrote an assembler and a dis-assembler ( I wanted to figure out how Basic worked) and a floating point package using integers(infinite precision). The neatest project was learning to program the machine to play music over the radio. One one program loops and the size of the loop determined the frequency that would be broadcast. One could them place a radio on top of the computer and listen to your creation. All in all, I was preaty much obsessed with computers at the time and spent all my time there.

The machine had 4K of core ram and one could run a form of basic ( actually a language called focal that someone had modified to make it work like basic) and could program between 30-50 lines of code (without the extension package): I tried repeatedly to get the school to double it and get another 4K but they were never willing to pay $20,000 (1974 US dollars) for the upgrade.

However, my most favorite characteristic were all the lights and switches. The world has lost much it the attempt at cost efficiency by getting rid of the switches and lights. All we have now are boxes and that do not impress or even feel like what a true computer should.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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My father did a great deal of work on DEC machines like the ones Mark is referring to. I don't remember having one around the house but I know we did have a VAX sitting in our garage at one point.
 

P5-133XL

Xmas '97
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People talk about code bloat, but one really does not understand until one has programed on a machine that has only 4K of ram and seen what one can do. Then compare modern machines with their programs and realize how bad inefficiency truely is.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
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Well, for the sake of comparison, Atari 2600 cartridges were only 4k. I think. Amazing things were done with that.
 

Fushigi

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Woz wrote the original Apple BIOS/DOS, or something, in 4KB ROM.

Take languages. Turbo Pascal 3 was a complete IDE with editor & compiler that fit in a mere 39KB executable. The programs even supported overlays & graphics.

- Fushigi
 

James

Storage is cool
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4K RAM? Luxury. My first home computer was a Sinclair ZX-81 in 1980, with the princely total of 1K of RAM. Try programming in that.
 

time

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Ha! You had it easy!

Apart from an HP calculator that could hold a 50 line program, my first computer was based on a National Semiconductor SC/MP. From memory, it had a 1kB ROM BIOS and 256 bytes of RAM.

I built it at the end of 1976, based on an NS SC/MP 'intro kit', I think. Although not the same, this picture gives you the general idea:

scmp1-64.jpg


If nothing else, it gave me an amazing ability to instantaneously translate between binary, hexadecimal, decimal and ASCI. Believe it or not, it really is possible to enter programs with toggle switches and read the results from a row of LEDs.

Although the following year I imported a keyboard kit from the US (yes, constructed a keyboard with 60 or 70 individual switches), and converted a monochrome TV to a 64 column monitor (the additional digital circuitry was breadboarded with wirewrap).

The most fun was hooking it up to a PA and using it as a primitive sequencer.
 

Buck

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My first PC had 8 MB of RAM. Before that I used Macintosh, and prior to that, Apple systems. They also had small amounts of RAM. I still remember making the switch from Macs to PCs. Windows 3.12 seemed so disfunctional.

But, as far as Time's experience goes, the last thing I operated with that many switches LEDs cost roughly US$120,000.00 and did offset printing. :D
 

P5-133XL

Xmas '97
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pdp8l.jpg

A picture of a PDP-8/L

It would be nicer if there was no glare and some LED's were lit. But it give you a feeling for what it looked like
 

James

Storage is cool
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Up until last year our central customer database was run on a PDP-11. It was so key to the business that it was a real problem to migrate to anything else.
 
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