dSLR thread

snowhiker

Storage Freak Apprentice
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
1,668
There are plenty of 50mm options for Nikon.
Why would you use a fast prime like a 28/1.4 for landscapes? Is it really the best choice in that FL?

The Nikkor e-series lenses are sharper than the older g-series ones. I'd only want a 28mm because it would be "evenly spaced" between a 19-20mm lens and a 50mm lens.

It's stupid that people still want that archaic blurry/jerky 24FPS look from like 80-90 years ago.

If you shot 24p video 2 years ago and wanted to add/edit, more/different, video to that file and could not shoot at 24p that would be problematic.
 

snowhiker

Storage Freak Apprentice
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
1,668
Nikon plans major announcements for the CES.

- D780 DSLR.
- Nikon AF-S NIKKOR 120-300mm f/2.8E FL ED SR VR.
- Z-mount 70-200mm f/2.8.
- Coolpix P950 "mega-zoom" camera.

My guesses are the mega/super zoom will retail around $7.5-9k and the Z-mount 70-200/2.8 will be $2800.

Some of the D780 listed specs:
- 24MP BSI Sensor.
- 4k30p & 2k120p video.
- Dual UHS-II SD card slots.
- 51-153 (105?) "regular" AF points. 273 AF points in LV.
- EN-EL15b battery.

(everything sounds really awesome up till this point...then...wait for it...)

- NO battery grip compatibility/pins. (aka D7500) <<<<----EPIC FUCKEN FAILURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- $2000-2200.

Lets ignore all the bad press from media/youtubers who shit all over the Z 6 and Z 7 for this. I understand the "bean counter" arguments for removing this feature. But beside the upcoming D6, the D780 could very well be the last DSLR Nikon produces. Especially if they can get a competent mirrorless D850 produced by late 2020/early 2021. Why remove features from your "last" camera? WTF. Sorry this just pisses me off as I'm not serious enough and/or rich enough to ever jump all the way up to a D850 class of camera. I was considering the D780 but no grip=NEVER BUY. PERIOD.

/end rant.
 

snowhiker

Storage Freak Apprentice
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
1,668
Yeah I saw that 1D X III article. Canon upgraded and downgraded their video just a bit. Is 5.4k RAW video so exciting that they'd compromise DPAF @ 4k for it? I'm sure the III will be an amazing camera but I was getting the feeling the Canonites were like, "is this it?" regarding their flagship camera. Like a 1D X 2.1 instead of III. I have a feeling the Nikon folks will get a D5.1 as well.

And I can understand their feelings and frustration like I have for the grip-less and joystick-less, $2k, D780.

Also interesting was no resolution bump on the 1D X III. Probably means the D6 will stay at 20 MP as well. Anecdotally there seems to be a need, desire and demand for a high MP camera with a high frame fate (14 fps) for the BIF and wildlife people. A truly "pro" D850 spec'd camera. Understandable the sports, action, PJ people want to stay at 20 MP since they only need 2-4MP for their published images anyways.

Since the D5 and 1D X II are such fine cameras if Canon/Nikon wasn't going to bump up the res any that maybe they should have put out a HIGH RES 45-60 MP D5x or 1D X II x camera.
 

snowhiker

Storage Freak Apprentice
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
1,668
My guesses are the mega/super zoom will retail around $7.5-9k and the Z-mount 70-200/2.8 will be $2800.

My guesses for the list price of new Nikon gear were fairly close.

Actual pre-order prices:
D780=$2300.
120-300mm=$9500.
70-200S=$2600.

The D780 and the mega/super zoom seem a bit high, but at least the mega/super zoom (if the MTFs are accurate) is stellar. The $2600 for the 70-200mm S lens is a bit surprising. Cheaper than I thought it would be. Especially if it ends up being better than the F-mount E version which is the best 70-200 on the market today.
 

snowhiker

Storage Freak Apprentice
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
1,668
The Nikon D6 has been officially announced.

Same resolution. No 4K60 video. No RAW video. No PDAF in LV. Electronic shutter fps only 10.5 fps Vs 20 fps for Sony and Canon. Same $6500 price tag. Bump from 12 to 14 fps mech shutter and a GPS module now included.

This is not the D6 I was hoping for. I'm calling this camera the Nikon D5.1. As there's not even enough new features to call it a D5s.

Total snoozefest and fail for Nikon.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
20,897
Location
I am omnipresent
Website
s-laker.org
I believe Nikon has announced that they're ending sales of SLR cameras as well.
Canon has said 2021 will be the last year it offers new SLR cameras and it has also ended production of a number of EF lenses that have an RF equivalent.

But hey, there's always Pentax.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,782
Location
USA
No, they are not ending sales. There will be no new cameras designed/introduced. Some cameras like the Nikon F6 were produced for more than a decade after digital cameras appeared. The big problem is the lack of new lens designs or inferior lens designs that don't replace the old ones. Some recently discontinued Canon EF or Nikkor lenses will be in high demand and quite valuable although not serviceable in a few years.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
20,897
Location
I am omnipresent
Website
s-laker.org
The market for $250,000 1200mm f5.6 lenses is just a bit self-selecting. Let the niche stuff go last.

But the writing is on the wall for camera bodies. There will still be DSLRs in the supply chain for years, obviously, but apparently some of the more common EF mount lenses have dropped off support lists, and that's potentially a bigger deal for someone who wants to stick with their old body.

A couple of my models just bought cameras of their own over the weekend. They asked me what to get. I suggested the Canon RP or a 90D. I do think the 90D is a better overall camera in a lot of important ways, but it's hard to argue with getting an RF mount, even if they both wound up buying a $100 EF to RF adapter first thing.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,782
Location
USA
The situation sure is grim now, especially for the DX/EF-s croppers. Nikon and Canon don't have Jack in ML reach cameras with decent AF and proper controls. :mad: All Nikon has is the anemic Z50 and Canon has nothing but the useless M mount stuff. In 2015 Nikon had 24 MP DX with nice performance in the D7200 and the D500 improved on that in 2016 (best AF ever in a cropper). No Canon or Nikon mirorless sh*t has that resolution (only the 60MP S*ny a7RIV series is equal) and nothing approaches the 90D.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
20,897
Location
I am omnipresent
Website
s-laker.org
I don't understand why Canon hasn't killed EF-M yet, but I think it's pandemic supply chain BS that's keeping both Canon and Nikon from offering crop sensor bodies. They just don't want to be bothered with anything that doesn't have margins like a $2000+ body.

Does anyone really NEED a crop sensor though? Wildlife maybe? I'd think all the extra AF tricks in full frame MILCs would make those a better choice for the field sports people even if the extra reach is useful for them as well.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,782
Location
USA
EF-M is still popular in Japan and some other asian countries. We are not going to see 60-80MP R bodies at under $2000; they'll be well over $4000.
 

Tannin

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
4,448
Location
Huon Valley, Tasmania
Website
www.redhill.net.au
There is a pixel density limit beyond which there really is no point in going smaller. That limit moves from time to time as technology (lenses, mostly) improves, but it moves quite slowly. Currently, the sensible limit is around about 70,000 px/mm2 - i.e., roughly 60MP in a full frame camera. The 7D II sits just below it, the 90D a little above it. In full frame, the 5DS R is just right - maximum resolution with no wasted effort.
 

Tannin

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
4,448
Location
Huon Valley, Tasmania
Website
www.redhill.net.au
Speaking of the 5DS R, it is a magnificent camera. After owning an EOS R for more than a year, I have no intention of going back to mirrorless . The EOS R was rubbish, worst Canon camera I have ever owned by quite a margin, and I've owned plenty. My current kit - 5DS R, 5D IV, 1D IV, 7D II - does everything I need and does it better than any non-SLR collection could do. Never say never, but on current evidence, I won't be moving on from SLRs. Canon have to do much <i>much</i>better if they want to force me out of SLRs.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,782
Location
USA
They are better than the R and RP of course, but the acquisition rate of even the modest 5D IV for OOF general subjects is way higher than the R5.
Tony should stay with the DSLRs for a while longer. Despite the bullsh*t on the interwebs, the MILCs are still years away from DSLRs in some areas.
 

Tannin

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
4,448
Location
Huon Valley, Tasmania
Website
www.redhill.net.au
No Merc. Once bitten, twice shy. Canon got $3200 of my money on an awful dud of a camera, damned if I'm going to fall for that scam twice. (I got about half my money back on the R by selling it 18 months later.)

Bottom line is that I look through cameras as well as take pictures with them (i.e., to observe birds and wildlife). Mirrorless cameras are hopeless for that. And I sometimes spend a long time looking through a camera waiting for the magic moment. There is just too much eyestrain involved if you haven't got a proper viewfinder.

(And that is leaving aside the other issues: viewfinder lag and inferior focus. OK, people say the R5 is much improved, but it want to be on a whole different planet to the EOS R, and even if it was, it still wouldn't have a proper viewfinder. In short, I may well be looking for a coffin before I go looking for a mirrorless camera for bird work.)
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,782
Location
USA
The EVF refresh rate and lag are practically eliminated with the R3, A1, and Z9, but the focus and other inherent mirrorless issues remain.
The question is whether the R5 II will have a better system or maybe it will have to be the rumored R1.
Ironically I am finding more use for the R5 in landscapes.
 
Last edited:

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,782
Location
USA
In May I bought a D7500 as a last DX camera before they disappear forever. It's not as good as the D7200, but faster. I hope that pair lasts a few years until a decent grade Z-DX MILS exists and matures enough in AF, which probably will not be the first generation. All Nikon has now is the Zfc for the "hipster doofus" and the Z50 D5000-class body.
 
Last edited:

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,782
Location
USA
The D7500 would be more for wildlife and the D7200 more for landscape.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,782
Location
USA
We are renting a D500 this fall, but next year they may not be available. Unfortunately nothing remotely replaces it in DX for AF with 500mm lenses.
The last high grade system Pentax made was the LX around 1980. They did not transition well to AF and later digital. :(
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,782
Location
USA
The D500 performed great and was great to use. I forgot how lame the Z50 or the few other croppers are nowadays. I'm really hoping that the R7 sells well enough that Nikon develops a good Z mount cropper of the same type.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,782
Location
USA
One of the lenses has VR that is totally out of whack and unable to be controlled.
I found that exact lens in great condition online, but wow they are becoming hard to find and service is limited. For some of the lenses it's better to buy used for now (if you can find them) rather than try to repair. Nikon really needs to get DX to Z soon. It's practically 2003 already.
 

Tea

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
3,749
Location
27a No Fixed Address, Oz.
Website
www.redhill.net.au
I am just back from another Sri Lanka trip. Wonderful place, as always. Great people, great food, fantastic wildlife.

I managed to clag up the 5D IV early on. My own fault really, I forgot my hat and - having very short hair - just tipped some combination sunscreen-mosquito repellent onto my head. That led to a small change from the usual Sri Lankan sweatbath (it is impossible to keep your hands clean and dry in that environment) to a mixture of sweat and god-only-knows what they put in that sunscreen-insect repellent goo.

Result: I clagged up the main (top) dial on the 5D IV.
 

Tea

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
3,749
Location
27a No Fixed Address, Oz.
Website
www.redhill.net.au
I had to resort to using the touch screen to set aperture and ISO on the 5D IV. Naturally, I switched to the 5DS R as the main birding camera, or sometimes the 7D II. The SR had phenomenal resolution and is awesomely croppable. However it doesn't AF as fast as the 5D IV (OK except for small birds), has a frame rate no better than the 20D had 16 years ago (no big deal), and struggles to focus in very bad light. Well, by comparison with the 5D IV it struggles, but the 5D IV is awesomely good in bad light, so being inferior to that just makes a camera normal. Even the 1D IV can't AF in the dreadful light the 5D IV thrives on.

You can't use flash in most of Sri Lanka (no flash in national parks and it is frowned on elsewhere) so the 5D IV was really missed. In the darkest rainforests I used it anyway - sometimes you can estimate the ISO you are going to need for the next 5 minutes pretty well, but mostly I used the 5D IV for landscapes and the 5DS R and 7D II for birds.

Now that I'm home, I have (a) sent the 5D IV off to the repair place I use in Brisbane, and (b) bought a 5DS to use alongside the 5DS R. At $1700 AUD second-hand, I reckon it was a bargain. Ideally I'd have another SR but they are few and far between these days. In many ways a second 5D IV would make more sense, but they are still $3500 AUD new and seldom seen used. The 5DS will do fine.
 

Tea

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
3,749
Location
27a No Fixed Address, Oz.
Website
www.redhill.net.au
An example of the SR's brilliant detail. This is a 100% crop.

221103_114123_5dsrxc.jpg


(The site software re-sizes stuff, so to see it at full res, follow this link - http://tannin.net.au/page.php?image=221103_114123_5dsrxc.jpg - and click on the picture.)

Here is the original image.

221103_114123_5DSR.jpg


Did I use the term "awesome" already? It will be interesting to see how closely the theoretically inferior 5DS approaches it.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
15,782
Location
USA
I used the 5DsR for most everything back in the day, other than the really low light where 1DX series was needed. 5Ds output was about the same as the 5DsR after a bit more sharpening was applied. At the time high ISO was better on 5DsR due to lower luminance noise after sharpening, but that may be less of a difference with the software of today. The R5 has a more sophisticated AA filter and sharpens really well, but still has less resolution (larger pixels) than the 5DsR. The 90D was my reach camera since it was first available, though now I'm using the R7.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
20,897
Location
I am omnipresent
Website
s-laker.org
An example of the SR's brilliant detail. This is a 100% crop.

That is indeed a glorious crop off a 600mm lens, and it's spectacularly free of noise for such a short shutter time. "Fast" for me is almost always 1/500 second and "far" for me is almost always less than 12m.

Are you doing anything special in processing these images or is this straight out of camera?
 

Tea

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
3,749
Location
27a No Fixed Address, Oz.
Website
www.redhill.net.au
Cheers Lunar. That's interesting. I used the 7D II as my reach camera for a long time, but use the 5DS R for that role now, unless I'm doing some sort of action sequence (e.g., flight shots) where the slower focus of the 5DS R is an issue and the crazy-slow wait for the buffer to clear is a show stopper. I find that the extra "wasted" areas I'm recording each shot with the SR are often useful after all when the bird does something unexpected.

Merc, I'm using DXO Photolab as my raw processer. I don't remember what specific things I did in it for that shot, but probably not much beyond the defaults. If I use the plugins (Nik ones, mostly Color FX) I add a different file extension. Come to think of it, this shot was processed in a hotel room on my laptop, so it would have have nothing much at all done - I *hate* doing photo work without a proper screen.
 

Tea

Storage? I am Storage!
Joined
Jan 15, 2002
Messages
3,749
Location
27a No Fixed Address, Oz.
Website
www.redhill.net.au
Oh, noise (for the most part, and for any given camera) is inversely proportional to photon count per unit area. Obviously darker areas have more noise than lighter areas, but this isn't really very useful to know as you still need to expose somewhere near correctly. That leaves a single variable as the key factor: ISO. Shutter speed and aperture make no difference at all, only ISO. In this case I was at ISO 400, which is the standard starting ISO for bird work, which you increase as necessary and very seldom decrease. For bird work, shutter speed is your very best friend. Even back in 20D days, 400 ISO was almost as clean as 100, and it is even more so today.

Ideally, for this shot I'd have dropped it to around 200 ISO, but it was a casual shot hand-held from the safari jeep. I was "obviously" too far away for a worthwhile picture .... except that thanks to the magic of the 5DS R, I wasn't!

I get your shutter speeds and distances - a completely different specialty. What gear are you using for it these days? I imagine that the key to getting good results (apart from working well with models, of course) is lighting.

Back to software and noise, DXO's new "Deep prime" processing is brilliant! It takes ages (well, it used to until I discovered that you can set it to use your GPU, which is miles faster than even the current-model i7 in my Thinkpad) but it really delivers the goods. I imagine that the latest versions of other packages are also much improved over the software of, say, 2012. I've been going through my archives and every now and then finding a shot at what used to be an unworkably high ISO which, with PhotoLab 6 and Deep Prime, comes up very well.
 

Mercutio

Fatwah on Western Digital
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
20,897
Location
I am omnipresent
Website
s-laker.org
I get your shutter speeds and distances - a completely different specialty. What gear are you using for it these days? I imagine that the key to getting good results (apart from working well with models, of course) is lighting.

I have a Canon R6 and an R7 right now, with the R7 intended for "secondary" tasks, which is usually either video with a wide lens or (I hope; it's too cold to be outside where I live to do much with human subjects) long shots with my 70-200, while my R6 is for pure photo work, usually off a 24-70, 50 or 135mm. Wide angles on an APS-C camera are a little weird, but I have a Tamron 15-30/2.8 that's actually a pretty great close-up video lens since it's quiet and stabilized. Most of the rest of my kit is Sigma or Canon EF stuff; most of the RF lens lineup is a bit too rich for my blood as yet.

Pretty much anything can take a great portrait, but I haven't found anything that can cope with the shifting lights in performance spaces like my R6. Manual exposure is just out of the question for that. One of the reasons I really like the sport-centered bodies I own is that I actually find myself shooting at the club where my friends work, or at times in concert settings since one of my permanent houseguests has a very interesting level of access to performance venues around Chicago. Canon Mirrorless bodies have a function called FV mode, which offers a quasi-manual option to control two sides of the exposure triangle as opposed to the usual Shutter or Aperture modes. This is one of those things I really like about working with a mirrorless body rather than an SLR.

I know LM also likes DxO quite a bit. I use Capture One and Topaz software for processing . I can't quite bring myself to pull the trigger on a switch. Perhaps I'll mess with it over my vacation. Editing can be a bit more of an issue for me than either of you, just given my normal subject.
 
Top