Camorders - DVD/Flash

[Chewy509]

Hi Guys,

Does any one know of a site that reviews Camcorders? (Like dpreview.com, but for camcorders).

My wife and I are looking for a new camcorder, and have narrowed it down to the following models:

1. Sony DCRDVD610
2. Canon DC310
3. JVC GZ-MS100
4. Samsung VP-DX100i

Basically, we want to avoid DV tape and move towards either Flash (SDHC or MS) based or internal HDD. Standard Definition is fine, as it's for home movies only. My only concern with Internal HDD models, is downtime when the HDD dies and/or needs to be replaced out-of-warranty, hence leaning towards something flash based where we can replace the storage as needed.

All the above models are DVD/Flash based, with 34x-41x optical zoom and support either SDHC cards or in the case of the Sony, their own Memory Stick. All have USB 2.0 connectivity, but I haven't been able to confirm if any of the cameras act like UMS devices or need custom drivers, but with SDHC, I'll just use a card reader to get around any problems. All record straight MPEG2, so software compatibility shouldn't be a problem, but video image quality may suffer due to low bitrates when recording MPEG2. (This is the part I'm interested in, what is the quality of the recorded video).

Any thoughts would be appreciated, or other models that we should also look at? The only advantage of DV Tape would be low cost and image quality, as the recorded video is uncompressed until I convert it to MPEG2 via software on my PC. Most HDD models from what I read record either MPEG2, VC-1 or H.264, not straight DV or similar uncompressed format, which doesn't bring any advantages other than greater recording time.

PS. The only reason we are considering the Sony, is price wise it's about 10% cheaper incl. storage than the others, since I can get it from a friend who works with Sony.

 

[udaman]

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/

Suppose it depends on your use/environment, price range, need for compactness vs performance in what types of situations ---best low-light performance, battery life...all sorts of things .

Better consider who will be doing the editing, what editing software will accommodate the file format best for your needs. iMovie probably best for the wife . Sony's still have Firewire/IEEE 1394 output (no matter what Steve-0 tries to tell the MacBook faithful about USB2), which is a better I/O for more than one reason.

 

[Chewy509]

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/

Suppose it depends on your use/environment, price range, need for compactness vs performance in what types of situations ---best low-light performance, battery life...all sorts of things .

Better consider who will be doing the editing, what editing software will accommodate the file format best for your needs. iMovie probably best for the wife . Sony's still have Firewire/IEEE 1394 output (no matter what Steve-0 tries to tell the MacBook faithful about USB2), which is a better I/O for more than one reason.

Thanks, but since we use Windows (wifes) and Solaris (mine), iMovie isn't really an option.

I do have an older copy of the ULead suite (which exports to DVD fine) so will use that on her system, and for mine, either Kino or Cinelerra.

 

[udaman]

Been thinking/looking for a model for myself. Consumer camcorders sure are backwards compared to still?

There are lower priced versions of the top end models, but all seem to be hopeless under performing/deficient in one or more areas, much like PnS digicams were in that state a few years ago. What's with the consumer vid cams lacking any wide angle, just like PnS of 3years ago? How long does it take for manufacturers to get a clue?

I suppose there now some with screw on wide-angle adapaters, but that's not exactly a solution...should be part of the zoom included with the cam!

Even low-end pro models, smaller size, are at an all together much higher level of capability compared to these small consumer camcorders...helps to have much larger sensors, but still.

At the high-end there's the new Sony & Canon models coming out in the next month or so:

Sony HDR-XR520V and Sony HDR-XR500V HD camcorders hands-on
http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/10015.html


Canon (big diameter lens, wide/teleconverters are expensive!!!):

http://videomaker.com/community/blogs/videonews/2009/03/4276-canon-vixia-hf-s10-first-look/

http://www.macuser.co.uk/digital-cameras/reviews/248613/canon-legria-hf-s10.html

Facilitating the maximum 24Mbits/sec bitrate possible under the existing AVCHD specification, the Legria HF S10 produces images that are unquestionably superb. However, importing the raw clips into Premiere Pro CS4 highlighted a number of problems that might be attributable to the fact that Canon uses H.264 High Profile at Level 4.1 (up to 24Mbits/sec) whereas Sony and Panasonic use H.264 Main Profile for their consumer AVCHD products at Level 4.0 (up to 18Mbits/sec). This isn't a problem when using iMovie or Final Cut Pro, but could be a problem on lower-powered Macs where no intermediate transcoding is undertaken. Note that an Intel Mac running Mac OS X Leopard is required for AVCHD editing.

​

...ouch! Oh well, the Mac Mini can do it now, only $529


And lastly the Panny, only 3 sensor in the consumer arena, only one with a 'pro' like manual lens ring for control of focus, iris, etc. And Panny and Apple software as the most compatible (Panny's pro models and Apple have a strong relationship...editing workflow)

Interesting to see how one site says it has great IQ, while another says it's the achilles heel of this line:

good:

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/248004/panasonic-hdchs300.html

bad:

http://www.infosyncworld.com/reviews/camcorders/panasonic-hdc-hs300/10147.html

Only in perfect lighting will it match the Canon HG21's or Sony HDR-SR12's performances on a bad day. Panasonic should investigate the benefits of a single large CMOS rather than remain married to the tiny three chip design. There were times when we couldn't tell the difference between the HDC-HS300 and a good old MiniDV standard-definition camcorder.

...ouch, don't hold back, tell us what you really think



Then there is the less expensive Samsung (also available in a more standard handycam layout, but without wideangle/tele converters)

'almost' good enough IQ and controls, even though it's the 1st 1080/60p consumer camcorder:

http://www.trustedreviews.com/camcorders/review/2009/01/31/Sanyo-Xacti-VPC-HD2000/p1


http://www.pcpro.co.uk/digital-cameras/reviews/246397/sanyo-xacti-vpchd2000.html

As long as you're aware that you'll have to own a powerful PC to play back the 24Mbit/sec H.264 MP4 footage let alone edit and render it without grinding your teeth to stumps in frustration (there's no guarantee your favoured video editing package will support it either) - you'll get pretty good looking footage.

Then there's the odd(est) ball of the bunch in the just announced JVC GZ-X900 'flat' chunky smartphone sized (where do they get all these names/model numbers?!?!)

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/photo-hd-video-d-slr-others/145016-jvc-too-game-everio-gz-x900.html

 

[Stereodude]

Get a 5D Mk II if you want wide angle HD video.

 

[LunarMist]

AS DSLR with video is not a camcorder.

 

[Stereodude]

AS DSLR with video is not a camcorder.

I know that. It was a joke.

 

[Chewy509]

Been thinking/looking for a model for myself. Consumer camcorders sure are backwards compared to still?

Something I will agree on... plus the added benefit of many manufacturers hiding details/specs about them as well. It was hard for us to decide on a model, and it was reading reviews on amazon that played a large part in selecting the model.

We ended up getting a JVC GZ-MG330 Standard Def 30GB HDD camcorder, and it's served well so far. The picture quality is ok, (meets DVD quality in most light conditions), just gets a little fuzzy in high movement conditions, but otherwise fine. The audio capture is quite good as far as I'm concerned.

One note of the JVCs (at least my model), they record as MPEG-2 interlaced without aspect ratio recorded, so under Windows Media player, the interlacing shows and the aspect ratio is treated as 4:3 not 16:9. Using VLC or MPlayer, none of these issues are presented to the end user as they seem to detect the format just fine. Just something to keep in mind if the recorded footage looks like crap. (The format for the AU models is 720 x 576i @ 60fps, and stretched/squashed for 4:3 or 16:9 aspect).

We use software that came with the camera, and have no issues with it. (Just a little basic, but does the job for home movies).

 

[Mercutio]

I saw a deal for a Creative Vado HD for $129 yesterday. They record in 720p and aren't much bigger than a cell phone. Buy direct from Creative with code VADOHDFRIENDS to get that price.

If I had the tiniest need for a video camera, I'd consider that.

Sadly, I have no need for a video camera.