When to Build New System

LiamC

Storage Is My Life
Joined
Feb 7, 2002
Messages
2,016
Location
Canberra
I'm skeptical. As most everyone has posted, Bluray and AMD don't seem to go in the same sentence. Heck, HTPC and AMD don't seem to work, if ATI is in the equation.

I find it rather funny, and sad, that my HTPC, with a 9600, works better then the much faster, nearly twice, Supermicro, dual Xeon, with a 4670 in it.

It would be great if AMD/ATI actually got HTPC right...

They haven't yet...

Strange. I used a 3650 (PCI-e) in my HTP without any ongoing issues for nearly two years. I've just upgraded it to a 5670. Any issue I did strike was usually solved by upgrading the codecs (K-Lite)/application used to display content (Media Player Classic/MPC Home Theatre). I have content in lots of different formats.

When I upgraded to the 5670, there was a display issue with the drivers on the CD. Updated those to Cat 10.2 and issue solved.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
I'll be making the move in the not too distant future. My current i7 965 EE CPU will be for sale. ;)

Of course it is different when you have outlets to sell used goods. I used to have that option, but it is not feasible any more. I estimated about $7k or so per year depreciation, at least half of that on bodies. Eventually items are worthless and tossed.
 

ddrueding

Fixture
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,719
Location
Horsens, Denmark
It is indeed unfortunate that you cannot resell your gear, considering that you run the fastest stuff all the time. That is the worst of both worlds. Why isn't resale an option?
 

Santilli

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 27, 2002
Messages
5,256
Strange. I used a 3650 (PCI-e) in my HTP without any ongoing issues for nearly two years. I've just upgraded it to a 5670. Any issue I did strike was usually solved by upgrading the codecs (K-Lite)/application used to display content (Media Player Classic/MPC Home Theatre). I have content in lots of different formats.

When I upgraded to the 5670, there was a display issue with the drivers on the CD. Updated those to Cat 10.2 and issue solved.

LiamC:

I had a bunch of stuff that was just too many bandaids. A supermicro, 10 year old motherboard, USB 2 Plextor Bluray writer/player, AGP 4670, all running on XP Pro.

Same player works fine on The Beast.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
What is the current outlook? Is July a feasible time to build a computer or should we wait a while longer?
 

ddrueding

Fixture
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,719
Location
Horsens, Denmark
Seems fine to me. Socket 1366 still has quite some life to it, you can have 6 cores if you like, and SSDs are quite happy at the moment with SATA6 and USB3 readily available.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
The CPU is still $1000 if I see correctly. It looks like the total system would be about $6K sans software. :bstd:
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
What is the preference for mainboard with two PCIe 8/16 slots?
 

CougTek

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
8,728
Location
Québec, Québec
Do you want SATA 6Gbps or USB3? If those two aren't priorities, then both the Asus Rampage II GENE and MSI X58M are good small motherboards with 2 PCI-E 16X slots. They are both µATX too. The Rampage II GENE has more BIOS settings, but it is also ~40$ more expensive. Both use the Intel X58 chipset and the LGA1366 for higher-end Core i7.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA


Thanks. Much of that I would not need or want. For example, the lowest-power video card is preferable for the 2D only usage and the SSD PCIe card is not for me. I'd rather get a good RAID controller for future upgrade options. ;) I'm not sure about the quality of the X58 board from the Egg ratings. Does it work well with 24GB of RAM and do the 8/16 slots function properly with 1x cards? I'd also drop the bleray burner. HD prices are so low that the idea of optical storage is nauseating and obsolete. :reindeer:
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
:reindeer:
Do you want SATA 6Gbps or USB3? If those two aren't priorities, then both the Asus Rampage II GENE and MSI X58M are good small motherboards with 2 PCI-E 16X slots. They are both µATX too. The Rampage II GENE has more BIOS settings, but it is also ~40$ more expensive. Both use the Intel X58 chipset and the LGA1366 for higher-end Core i7.

SATA 6 would be nice, but only on the ICH. Obviously that is far from now. Otherwise I see no difference from using an add-in controller. I will need some anyway to support the 16 SATA devices. I am fine with the standard ATX size. I must use a case that fits 10 drives.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
I would drop the Antec P193 and CP-1000 and instead go with the Antec P183 and the ABS MJ-900 900W 80 Plus GOLD certified power supply. Much more efficient and no more expensive. You don't need a thousand Watts anyway (any good 600W should be enough for your configuration).

I was hoping to reuse the Seabreeze or something 700W PSU in the current system. It has been working fine for nearly three years. Is that kind too old for a new system? :spiderman:
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
Urrrr, edit expired. Is there a case that does not have a front panel door, but not too naked inlets either? I need access to 4x5.25" bases, for the HD, optical, indicator/HD and secondary power switches.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
It is Seasonic brand. I like the PSU because there are modular connectors for multiple power rails and it does not flake out or die with repeated HD power switching like so many Antecs did. It is quiet too.
 

CougTek

Hairy Aussie
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
8,728
Location
Québec, Québec
Urrrr, edit expired. Is there a case that does not have a front panel door, but not too naked inlets either? I need access to 4x5.25" bases, for the HD, optical, indicator/HD and secondary power switches.
Antec Solo. Ok airflow inside and reasonably quiet (dampened side panel). It is heavily built.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
It should be kind of like that, but larger and accept at least four 5.25" bays and 6 hard drives. I will connect 12 devices, but two SSDs can lie around in it somewhere. :santa:
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
Is that giant heatsink-heatpipe thingie need for the mainboard?:monky:
 

ddrueding

Fixture
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,719
Location
Horsens, Denmark
Is that giant heatsink-heatpipe thingie need for the mainboard?:monky:

Depends on the airflow in your case. If you have significant airflow, no. If you have really low airflow and are overclocking/overvolting, yes. If you have no airflow at all and are overclocking/overvolting (like me) then you also need to use the built-in waterblock.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
My current CPU (Q9650) runs just fine with a decent heatsink fan at >4GHz. Are the newer processors harder to OC? It's already at 3.33, so I was assuming that 4 is not a problem.
 

ddrueding

Fixture
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,719
Location
Horsens, Denmark
The CPU wasn't really the culprit; the motherboard chipset was running much hotter. My new motherboard (X58A-UD9) has even more chips to support the extra PCIe lanes, so there is more heat.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
So the CPU has a process shrink, but the chipset is inefficient?
 

ddrueding

Fixture
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,719
Location
Horsens, Denmark
Not really inefficient, but the cooling on most chipsets is inadequate IMHO. A modern CPU draws ~100W and has a giant heatsink with a large fan on it. The chipset has to disperse 20-40W and all it gets is a little heatsink that hopes to get some spare airflow from somewhere else? Some chipsets have tiny fans, but that isn't any good, either.

The Gigabyte boards I use have heatpipes that evenly distribute the heat to many points on the board, so the odds of some part of it being in airflow from something is much higher. Put on the neat PCI slot heatsink thingy and you can guarantee the entire chipset will remain cool even in the quietest/most crowded systems.
 

ddrueding

Fixture
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,719
Location
Horsens, Denmark
Yup. Once I stick in the two 5870s, the OCZ Z-Drive, The X-Fi Forte 7.1, and the Intel Pro/1000PT dual-port, I'm out of slots ;)

That was actually the deciding factor in not putting the system in a case, but mounting it to the wall instead.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
Not really inefficient, but the cooling on most chipsets is inadequate IMHO. A modern CPU draws ~100W and has a giant heatsink with a large fan on it. The chipset has to disperse 20-40W and all it gets is a little heatsink that hopes to get some spare airflow from somewhere else? Some chipsets have tiny fans, but that isn't any good, either.

The Gigabyte boards I use have heatpipes that evenly distribute the heat to many points on the board, so the odds of some part of it being in airflow from something is much higher. Put on the neat PCI slot heatsink thingy and you can guarantee the entire chipset will remain cool even in the quietest/most crowded systems.

Other than briefly, my CPU is not using full power all the time though. Maybe that would change in newer apps, but actual use is nothing like the stress tests.
 

ddrueding

Fixture
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,719
Location
Horsens, Denmark
In that way you are correct about chipsets being inefficient; they don't have all the on idle power saving capabilities that CPUs do. If the system is idle most of the time, it is possible the chipset will produce more heat than the CPU.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
X58 is the only or best chipset, right? So all the boards would be failry similar.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
I'm not sure about the case, but that can wait. Is the board that David mentioned really the best one? I'd rather not lose a slot to the giant heat pipe device.
 

ddrueding

Fixture
Joined
Feb 4, 2002
Messages
19,719
Location
Horsens, Denmark
On this one you don't lose a slot to the heatsink, it is next to slot one. This is the best board, but it is huge. You will have very few choices when it comes to cases, which is why I decided to go without.
 

LunarMist

I can't believe I'm a Fixture
Joined
Feb 1, 2003
Messages
17,450
Location
USA
Is there a more conventional Gigabyte board with 2 PCIe 8/16 slots that performs as well?
 
Top