Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution premier

[sechs]

Uh, there will definitely be people who decide who and who doesn't get treated. If you don't want to call it a death panel, that's great, but there are certainly boards who will decide who gets treated.

Is the tea bag tied too tightly around your neck, or have you just sunk from ignorant to stupid?

 

[Stereodude]

Ah, yes... Ad Hominem attacks. Welcome to the discussion!

 

[Mercutio]

You can recognize an ad hominem argument but not a straw man, Stereodude?

 

[sechs]

Ah, yes... Ad Hominem attacks. Welcome to the discussion!

Actually, it was supposed to be a false dichotomy. Since you say it's not that, it must be a true dichotomy.

 

[jtr1962]

There's a reason why doctors don't want to accept Medicare / Medicaid. They get paid peanuts, have all sorts of nutty paperwork requirements, and it becomes not worth it.

Social Security is a national embarrassment. Perhaps you missed the fact that Social Security will start paying out more money this year than it takes in ( link ). They didn't save the surplus from all the prior years. They spent it and wrote themselves IOU's. The gov't wants to pretend that they can start cashing those IOU's and they'll be ok for another decade or two. I must have missed the surplus of money in the budget they'll cash those IOU's against.

All I said was these programs don't spend a lot of money on overhead. Their insolvency is another issue entirely. At least what funds they do take in are mostly paid out in benefits. Social Security's overhead is only around 1%. Now remember that the recent health care bill will require insurance companies to spend 85% of every dollar in revenue on benefits. Apparently this needed to be written into law because they were spending less than that now. So 15% overhead would be considered "good" for private insurance, compared to probably only 1% or 2% if the government insured people. Sorry, but if the government is going to mandate something, then they damned well better give me the option to purchase it from an entity which has as little overhead as practical.

And I won't shed any tears if all insurance companies go bankrupt as you say. Maybe we'll replace the low-paying service sector jobs lost when the insurance companies go under with real jobs in the manufacturing. Fact is an economy based on service sector jobs like insurance or banking doesn't work well. These industries create no tangible material goods or infrastructure of lasting value. Rather, they just manipulate other people's assets in such a way as to maximize their profits. We've supposedly had a bunch of "boom" years prior to this latest meltdown. Exactly who or what gained? I'm not seeing most people I know very well off. I'm also not seeing a lot of useful public infrastructure. I do see a lot of empty luxury condos and McMansions, but I don't consider those very useful. The point is you don't need insurance companies to do what the government can do at least as well, and at lower cost. Leave private industry to do what it does best, namely create material goods. Let government handle the "services".

 

[time]

--- Back On Topic ---

From Breakfast from hell on the highway to heart disease:

Between Chapel Hill and Asheville (about 300km) there was an exit every 5km with signposts to at least three if not five or six fast food joints – A&R, Denny’s, McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy’s, Jack in the Box, Pizza Hut, Dominos, KFC – you name it. And the poorer the towns, the more options there were.

Imagine 50 or 60 fast food joints between Sydney and Canberra and you’ll get the picture. It was like a hyper-inflated example of the trends we’re seeing in Australia where the worst food options are concentrated in the less affluent parts of town.

...

For all his cockney shtick, Jamie Oliver deserves credit for the work he’s doing to educate poor communities on child nutrition. In a recent attempted tuck-shop overhaul in the dirt-poor state of West Virginia, Oliver met kids who could not tell the difference between a potato and a tomato, and whose diet was so processed that they couldn’t hold a knife and fork as they only ever used spoons.

 

[ddrueding]

From my favorite alternative to YouTube.

 

[LunarMist]

Are incidences of vomiting and diarrhea reduced?

 

[Howell]

One stat that I found interesting was the difference in spending on food as a percentage of disposable income in the 1930s and 1990s. 9.9% in 2005 vs more than 25% in 1933.

I find it difficult under my current budget structure to afford better quality foods. But that could mean that my current budget structure is not conducive to healthful eating. It is certainly something to think about.

 

[Stereodude]

Typically people eat out a lot which costs a lot more than eating healthy home cooked food. I'm not sure that spending more will get you healthier food.

 

[ddrueding]

For the last few weeks I haven't done hardcore fast food. Instead I've taken the time to go do a sit-down of some kind. This may be pizza, steak, a burger, whatever. There is still salt, sugar, lard, etc; but I'm more confident that it is closer to "food" than the fast food or frozen isle garbage.

 

[Howell]

Typically people eat out a lot which costs a lot more than eating healthy home cooked food. I'm not sure that spending more will get you healthier food.

Increasing income while keeping the costs of food static would produce that statistic as well but I don't think that's the case.

People eat out more now than they did then which would tend to drive up the percentage of spending on food. Regardless, that statistic (eating in/out) was in the article I linked.

The goal is not to spend more; the goal is to eat healthfully. I had already noticed that I could not afford to do that but seeing the old school statistic makes adjusting the budget easier to swallow, pun intended. Extremely fresh food costs more.

 

[LunarMist]

I guess the question is what is a reasonable compromise. Eating 80% healthy food is a lot better than 50%.

 

[Howell]

For the last few weeks I haven't done hardcore fast food. Instead I've taken the time to go do a sit-down of some kind. This may be pizza, steak, a burger, whatever. There is still salt, sugar, lard, etc; but I'm more confident that it is closer to "food" than the fast food or frozen isle garbage.

I would agree that something prepared fresh is better than something pre-prepared. I'm also fine with frozen veggies. Apparently the flash freezing process keeps the nutrients in even if you do lose some flavor.

 

[Howell]

I guess the question is what is a reasonable compromise. Eating 80% healthy food is a lot better than 50%.

Its whatever is reasonable to you and your personal circumstance. Personally my budget won't be able to handle the shift for a year or more. But at least I'm making an informed decision and I have an idea where I'm trying to get to.

My family had never had good asparagus until I made it for them. They would either avoid it or suffer it. Multiple people with multiple decades of experience. Now they have a new standard and I've taught them how to do it right.

 

[ddrueding]

I am really looking forward to having a good kitchen so I can cook myself. My biggest complaint about healthy food isn't the cost but the time. Whether eating out or cooking for yourself, there are very few fast and healthy options. Subway Sandwiches come to mind, but that takes thee times longer than the all-you-can-eat lunch at Round Table Pizza. I only know of one dedicated salad bar in Salinas, and it is the salad capital of the world with a (legal) population of over 250,000.

 

[Howell]

I know, I know. I've gotten into the habit of cooking something to last multiple days. I do actually buy veggies but I never cook them and they go bad in the fridge.

 

[Mercutio]

I have basically the same problem. I have veggies but don't eat nearly enough of them.

I *think* my biggest dietary problem is actually salt. Pretty much all restaurant food and most prepared, packaged food are way, way high in sodium. I've gotten a lot better about making choices with lower amounts of fat (not low-fat, but not "eat two Burger King Whoppers at lunch" fatty, either), but it's almost impossible to get away from high sodium when eating out.

Most of my home cooked meals involve large hunks of meat that have been cooked in a crock pot, because when I get home from work cooking is usually really close to the last thing I want to do. A lot of nights, that's it: some warmed up meat. Maybe some crackers or maybe some carrots.

There are two-serving frozen vegetable items at the grocery store, but in a lot of cases they're items that involve pasta and/or cheese sauces rather than straight veggies. Also, those things are a bit expensive ($2.50 for basically enough veggies for one meal), but they do occasionally go on sale.

So, anyway, from the guy who has lost 100lbs. over the last few years, a couple things I have done to make better food choices:

1. Lunches at Subway instead of McDonalds.

2. Lunch is my big meal. Dinner is small and quick so the food I actually cooked lasts longer. Yes, being lazy about cooking is a bigger justification than anything else.

3. Eat SOMETHING in the morning. I'm never hungry first thing in the morning, but I am at about 10AM, unless I consciously decide to eat anyway. So I have a banana and/or an apple. It's easy enough to keep a bunch of bananas, and apples pretty much won't go bad in your fridge. I also keep instant oatmeal and a bag of apples in my office at work.

4. Soda is a treat. Sugar soda far moreso. Water is free and there are little little flavor packets (Crystal Light) you can use if you absolutely need to have your water to taste less water-y.

5. A bag of cut carrots or broccoli costs less than chips or crackers and works out better for bored snacking. At work, sitting at a desk, I'll have a a couple pieces of peppermint hard candy or an apple or a jawbreaker when I'm feeling the urge to do desk-job grazing.

6. It's stupid to deny yourself the occasional food treat. You'll wind up binging on something. I see that with my brother (who is living with me right now. Sob.), who says he maintains a 1500 calorie diet but will eat an entire package of cookies "just to get it out of the house", if he finds one.

 

[Handruin]

I've been your number 3 item consistently now and it has made a difference. My morning breakfast is usually one packet of the Quaker instant oatmeal (lower sugar Apples & Cinnamon). I mix it with water and put it in the microwave for 90 seconds. Works out to 110 calories and it's filling.

I've also found eating at subway can be inexpensive and reduced calories. I'll get the 6" turkey sandwich and then ask for a cup for some water.

 

[jtr1962]

I've consistently ate breakfast my entire life. It still didn't stop me from gaining about 35 pounds from my mid 20s up until now ( actually, my weight has been stable at 195-205 for at least the last decade ). I might be losing some lately between cutting out soda and getting on my bike at least a couple of times a week. I generally don't weigh myself regularly. I just know if my pants get a little tighter to cut down. Lately the pants have gotten a bit looser. I still need to get down to about 160.

Congrats Merc on the weight loss! Knowing how hard it is to try and lose 10 pounds, losing 100 is a major accomplishment you should be proud of! :salut:

 

[ddrueding]

Congrats indeed to Merc, that is a hell of an accomplishment. The only other person I know who lost that much also had their leg amputated. I consider that cheating.

I'm looking at getting one of these to help with the no soda thing.

 

[udaman]

I have basically the same problem. I have veggies but don't eat nearly enough of them.


(not low-fat, but not "eat two Burger King Whoppers at lunch" fatty, either), but it's almost impossible to get away from high sodium when eating out.

2 BK Whoppers 4 lunch and u've consumed a whole days worth of calories & exceeded recommended fat levels.

There are two-serving frozen vegetable items at the grocery store, but in a lot of cases they're items that involve pasta and/or cheese sauces rather than straight veggies.

Also, those things are a bit expensive ($2.50 for basically enough veggies for one meal), but they do occasionally go on sale.

So, anyway, from the guy who has lost 100lbs. over the last few years, a couple things I have done to make better food choices:

Veggies are no more expensive than most meats...think you should look at your comparisons more closely. Compared to takeout, or eating at a restaurant $2.50 is what you pay for a simple cup of coffee or soda...it's a bargain, imho.

For spring mix salad I buy @TJ's the hard part is finding a salad dressing that tastes good, and is low in calories. I'm using TJ's low fat balsamic vinegar dressing most of the time. The LF Parm Ranch dressing gets sickening in taste if I use it more than a few times/wk.

Thing I hate about diet menus and TV dinners is that 1/2 of them incorporate (if U are not a vegetarian) chicken as the 'meat' part...I get sick of chicken after a while.

1. Lunches at Subway instead of McDonalds.

In my early-mid 20's I used to get Subway sandwiches for myself and a few co-workers. But while I was basically skinny then, I got sick of that craptastic clear liquid 'seasoning' stuff they would always squirt on the finished sandwiches (I ask for them to not put it on, but min wage workers are not the most responsive).

w/o the sauce, given semi-fresh ingredients, and kind of stale/chewy baguette bread...not what I'd want...I ate it, but it was not satisfying as a lunch, this when I was 40lbs lighter than I am now. Around LA area, most parts of town you could find better tasting takeout sandwiches, much better fresh baked bread-fancy shit, but they are not necessarily lower calorie...which is why they taste better ...and *much* more expensive.

When Obama 1st came into office, 60-minutes did a piece on Alice Water's crusade, showing her with Michelle @WH fresh garden. Well those types of gardens and the 'eat local' and/or home produced fashion of the decade, they all look great on camera but in reality require tons of work to maintain...great for the pres wife, or wealthy Waters with plenty of time on their hands or *someone* else to work those gardens. too tired now to give U the link from the CBS website.

2. Lunch is my big meal. Dinner is small and quick so the food I actually cooked lasts longer.

This is how traditional Europeans eat, they close shop for 2hrs to take in a big lunch, have smaller dinners...except the wealthy who bing on 3-star Michelin restaurants, or hipsters in their 20's who chow down at trendy spots and clubs until late in the night...supermodels too

3. Eat SOMETHING in the morning. I'm never hungry first thing in the morning, but I am at about 10AM, unless I consciously decide to eat anyway. So I have a banana and/or an apple. It's easy enough to keep a bunch of bananas, and apples pretty much won't go bad in your fridge. I also keep instant oatmeal and a bag of apples in my office at work.

I recently bought 20 pks of Post Raisin brand cereal on sale for 1.88, with 50cent off coupons I cut out of a bunch of older boxes of these, got me down to 1.38, saved $$$. I typically, almost everyday of the week, for the past 3 or 4 years, eat a full bowl of this, with 2% milk (4% full fat milk, diluted with 50% tap water, bc full fat milk diluted manually for some reason tastes stronger than ready bought 2% milk). Keeps me regular, but does nothing to keep me from continuing to eat through out the day into the evening

4. Soda is a treat. Sugar soda far moreso. Water is free and there are little little flavor packets (Crystal Light) you can use if you absolutely need to have your water to taste less water-y.

Crystal Light tastes of artificial, gawd awful, nasty chemicals. Use fresh Meyer lemons when in season, they are naturally semi-sweet. Use fresh squeezes orange juice for quickie flavoring as opposed to squeezing a bunch of them to get a full OJ drink

5. A bag of cut carrots or broccoli costs less than chips or crackers and works out better for bored snacking.

I can eat 3bls of tangerines in a day, I can eat 3-5 apples a day as snacks, a pound of black graphes, and they don't seem to keep me feeling full At least I don't get sick of them, but they don't fill me up enough.

Well I get sick of eating cut carrots all the time. Broccoli, as in fresh cooked or uncooked...raw? Ugh, I can only eat so much of boiled/cooked broccoli w/o and sauce on it, b4 getting as sick of it as carrots.

6. It's stupid to deny yourself the occasional food treat. You'll wind up binging on something. I see that with my brother (who is living with me right now. Sob.), who says he maintains a 1500 calorie diet but will eat an entire package of cookies "just to get it out of the house", if he finds one.

Trader Joe's is a land mind of dangerous high-calorie food. I just went cold turkey (*snif* *snif* ...I miss them so much ) on TJ's Belgian made milk & dark choc, candy bars. Those little puny light 1oz f*kers have 280cal per bar, 27% of DV saturated fat!!! For some reason I didn't look at the fine print, I was eating 1-2 of the pkgs per day (3 to a pkg!) Do the math and see that if I eat nothing else all day (never happens) I get almost a full day's calories in just 6 of those fiendish bars

Yeah, so recently I get Lean Cuisine 12oz microwave TV dinners, only the ones that have <300cal (not many of those, most are higher). I found that with the 8oz typical size servings of these diet TV dinners, I'd eat at least 2 of them to have enough to feel full, and some of the 8oz servings are nearly 400+ cal, so 2x = 800 dinner... *argh*.

They had Smart Ones (Weight Watchers) brand desserts on sale. OK, so they say 170-190 per serving. 2 to a pkg. I bought 6, total, 3 diff kinds. I opened and defrosted all of them, after eating 2x of the 8oz dinners, I find inside these seemingly large enough boxes, 2 *tiny* desserts. I eat one, like it's a small scoop of ice cream, and then another, and another until I ate 5 out of 6 servings! Uggh, for dinner then I consumed massive calories by eating these diet TV dinners, lol No more 'Dumb Ones" desserts! The larger LC 12oz servings, some of them don't taste too bad, but I'm not sure I could eat those 3 or 4x/wk, week after week and not get sick of them.

Congrats on your weight loss Merc, have you noticed any health benefits, like increased energy levels? Now you've slimmed down, does it help with self-esteem...cause I found this funny site that says you can get laid in 1 out of 3 dates, lol Skanks R us dating.com

http://www.onlineschools.org/

^some funny 'facts'

http://www.onlineschools.org/blog/online-dating/

^data from dating site: OKcupid.com (aka 'Skanks R Us dating')