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Thread: SSDs - State of the Product?

  1. #3151
    Serial computer killer Hairy Aussie CougTek's Avatar
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    The 2.5" NVMe drives have been available for 2 or 3 years now. They are significantly cheaper than SAS SSD (although often faster), but don't expect consumer-like prices either. Expect ~1$/GB for the write-intensive models (Intel DC P4600, Micron 9100MAX, etc) and 0.50$-0.70$/GB for read-intensive models (Intel DC P3520, DC P4500).

    The DC P4600 will probably be the fastest drive for the money when it will be available in several weeks.

    If you plan to purchase one, be careful as most of them are available in both U.2 (2.5") and PCI-E (HHHL) form factors.

  2. #3152
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    I probably was not following the enterprise drives. What controller are they connected to or are certain billboards needed?
    --Lunar

  3. #3153
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    As a starting point, take a look here. There is even an adapter that can plug into the m.2 slot which allows you to run a cable to a 2.5" NVMe SSD. I'm only aware of enterprise drives being available in a 2.5" size with NVMe connectors.

  4. #3154
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    I would but I thought from Sechs' comment that they are not manufactured.
    If you're willing to pay through the nose, everything can be manufactured.

    U.2 on the desktop just doesn't make a lot of sense. One can get quite large M.2 SSDs or just go straight to storage on a PCIe card.
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  5. #3155
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post
    If you're willing to pay through the nose, everything can be manufactured.

    U.2 on the desktop just doesn't make a lot of sense. One can get quite large M.2 SSDs or just go straight to storage on a PCIe card.
    You're forgetting the NVMe hot-swap use case. This is exactly what we had and needed in our lab from a Dell R730 rack-mount systems. There is demand for manufacturing 2.5" NVMe SSDs that aren't special cases.

  6. #3156
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handruin View Post
    You're forgetting the NVMe hot-swap use case. This is exactly what we had and needed in our lab from a Dell R730 rack-mount systems. There is demand for manufacturing 2.5" NVMe SSDs that aren't special cases.
    I'd argue that rack-mount systems aren't desktops.
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  7. #3157
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post
    If you're willing to pay through the nose, everything can be manufactured.

    U.2 on the desktop just doesn't make a lot of sense. One can get quite large M.2 SSDs or just go straight to storage on a PCIe card.
    Are there 4GB M.2 cards yet? That may be enough if they work on a removable.
    --Lunar

  8. #3158
    Not really a Hairy Aussie
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    Are there 4GB M.2 cards yet? That may be enough if they work on a removable.
    Seems a little small to me, but what do I know?

  9. #3159
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    I think the widths are the same but some are longer. 4TB is enough for large project in progress.
    --Lunar

  10. #3160
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post
    I'd argue that rack-mount systems aren't desktops.
    You can put them in desktop systems. Lunar has atypical requirements so it requires procuring enterprise level equipment.

  11. #3161
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    U.2 sure looks expensive.
    --Lunar

  12. #3162
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    U.2 sure looks expensive.
    Yep, the Dragon Lady is pretty expensive.

  13. #3163
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    I had to look that up. U-2 I get it.
    --Lunar

  14. #3164
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handruin View Post
    Lunar has atypical requirements so it requires procuring enterprise level equipment.
    Lunar has atypical wants....
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  15. #3165
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    I want a 4TB drive with more than 550 MB/sec. It's not that weird, is it?
    --Lunar

  16. #3166
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    I want a 4TB drive with more than 550 MB/sec. It's not that weird, is it?
    550MB/sec at what block size? No it's not weird.

  17. #3167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handruin View Post
    550MB/sec at what block size? No it's not weird.
    probably 4kB random write, 32 queue depth.

  18. #3168
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    probably 4kB random write, 32 queue depth.
    No, the que depth realistically should be low. Higher numbers inflate the IPOPS.
    --Lunar

  19. #3169
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    At least you understand where I'm going with my question.

  20. #3170
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handruin View Post
    At least you understand where I'm going with my question.
    I'm not all that complicated. I just want ~4TB with performance similar to the 2TB SSDs like the 960 Prod and better reliability.
    --Lunar

  21. #3171
    Serial computer killer Hairy Aussie CougTek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    I'm not all that complicated. I just want ~4TB with performance similar to the 2TB SSDs like the 960 Prod and better reliability.
    Buy this drive and this adapter. Follow the instructions in this video to know how to install it.

    Finally, you must absolutely click on that link.
    Asta la vista, baby.

  22. #3172
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Thanks. What is the warranty service situation for Intel SSD? Is there any way to determine if a seller and product are under USA warranty?
    --Lunar

  23. #3173
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    You'd have to research that. If you don't want to bother with researching warranty eligibility, buy it from CDW for $100 more.
    https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/In...x/4611569.aspx

  24. #3174
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    I think that is a different one, but cdw is legit?
    --Lunar

  25. #3175
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    Both sites list the same manufacturing part number SSDPE2KX040T701...how is it different? CDW has been around forever and usually interfaces with businesses. I haven't bought anything from them in a long time because they're often not the cheapest price for any given product. They have a 1-800 phone number you could call and ask.

  26. #3176
    Learning Storage Performance
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    CDW has been around for decades, I can remember getting their catalogs in the mail.

  27. #3177
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handruin View Post
    Both sites list the same manufacturing part number SSDPE2KX040T701...how is it different? CDW has been around forever and usually interfaces with businesses. I haven't bought anything from them in a long time because they're often not the cheapest price for any given product. They have a 1-800 phone number you could call and ask.
    I may be confused by the PCIe 3.1 part, which I thought meant the PCIe card style rather than U.2. My X99 only has PCIe 3.0 if that matters.
    I'd want to figure out how to automatically copy that to the NAS.
    --Lunar

  28. #3178
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    If your application and/or usage pattern requires random reads your solution is here.
    - 3770k, 212 EVO, Z77X-UD4H, 32GB, 660w, Titan, 840 Pro/256GB, 2TB & 1TB, Define R4, P4317Q, Unicomp/104, M500, M401dn, Win7 Pro x64.

    - Nikon D610 w/grip, 50mm/1.4G, 16-35mm/4G, 105mm/2.8G micro, 200-500mm/5.6E.

  29. #3179
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowhiker View Post
    If your application and/or usage pattern requires random reads your solution is here.
    Not really. I suppose it is for servers.
    I suppose the sustained writes/reads are nothing special if they only report the 4K random results.
    --Lunar

  30. #3180
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    The 2TB MX300 is just too much for the old PSDs. They keep throwing errors on batteries or slowing down after a while.
    --Lunar

  31. #3181
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    I'm evaluating a 2.5" Samsung SM1715 NVMe 1.6TB drive in my desktop. What does everyone typically use for software to gauge the performance of SSDs under windows these days? I tried the common one like CrystalDiskMark and Atto. Are there others people use?

  32. #3182
    Not really a Hairy Aussie
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    What's the recommended M.2 NVMe drive for a laptop? The Samsung 960 EVO series?

  33. #3183
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    What's the recommended M.2 NVMe drive for a laptop? The Samsung 960 EVO series?
    That works for me.
    --Lunar

  34. #3184
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    http://www.storagereview.com/samsung_860_pro_ssd_review

    The 4TB 960 Pro uses Toshiba TLC, hmmm.
    --Lunar

  35. #3185
    Wotty wot wot. Storage Is My Life Chewy509's Avatar
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    Saw this review this morning... We've had a few Intel and Samsung M2's at work, and it's pretty much a either/or with either brand...

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/12349...p-512gb-review
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

  36. #3186
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    http://www.storagereview.com/samsung_860_pro_ssd_review

    The 4TB 960 Pro uses Toshiba TLC, hmmm.
    I think you mean the 860 Pro. The use of TLC Nand is disappointing for a "Pro" drive though it seems to perform quite well. The information directly contradicts the Anandtech review Chewy linked which says, "...and Samsung's 64L 3D NAND is used in the new 860 PRO and 860 EVO..."

    Also, see: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12348...4tb-ssd-review
    Last edited by Stereodude; 01-23-2018 at 10:04 PM.

  37. #3187
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    I think you mean the 860 Pro. The use of TLC Nand is disappointing for a "Pro" drive though it seems to perform quite well. The information directly contradicts the Anandtech review Chewy linked which says, "...and Samsung's 64L 3D NAND is used in the new 860 PRO and 860 EVO..."

    Also, see: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12348...4tb-ssd-review
    In the Samsung press release it is stated that the 860 Pro uses MLC and that the EVO uses TLC.
    --Lunar

  38. #3188
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    In the Samsung press release it is stated that the 860 Pro uses MLC and that the EVO uses TLC.
    No one else states that. Only Storage Review says it has Toshiba flash though. Samsung also shortened the warranty to 5 years on the Pro version.

    However, I don't really get it. For the most part the SATA interface was already holding back the 850 Pro. The 860 Pro has little room for more performance, but they want a price premium for it. For the same price level you can get a faster NVMe drive. Or you can get like 95% of the performance for a lot less because other companies can effectively saturate the SATA interface with some of their products also.

  39. #3189
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    However, I don't really get it. For the most part the SATA interface was already holding back the 850 Pro. The 860 Pro has little room for more performance, but they want a price premium for it. For the same price level you can get a faster NVMe drive. Or you can get like 95% of the performance for a lot less because other companies can effectively saturate the SATA interface with some of their products also.
    Not everyone has or is comfortable with M.2.

    And why settle for 95% when you can pay more for 100%?
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  40. #3190
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Certainly most computers don't have 6-8 NVMe ports as they do SATA ports.
    It would he nice to set up a BAS or storage server with a dozen of the 4TB 860 Pros.
    --Lunar

  41. #3191
    Wotty wot wot. Storage Is My Life Chewy509's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    It would he nice to set up a BAS or storage server with a dozen of the 4TB 860 Pros.
    Find a motherboard with enough PCIe x16 slots and you could use a few of these: http://www.aplicata.com/quattro-410/

    (Not recommending the above mentioned product, but to demonstrate that this sort of product exists).

    PS. http://www.supermicro.com/products/m...0/x10drg-q.cfm and https://www.supermicro.com.tw/Aplus/.../H11SSL-NC.cfm , so there are boards out there with 3 and 4 PCIex16 slots... Add in a 10GB LAN adapter...
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  42. #3192
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    I think I will wait for the next generation of NVMe drives before getting one for the new laptop since it already comes with one that will tie me over just fine. The PM981 is already out so the 980 EVO shouldn't be too far away.

  43. #3193
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    I think I will wait for the next generation of NVMe drives before getting one for the new laptop since it already comes with one that will tie me over just fine. The PM981 is already out so the 980 EVO shouldn't be too far away.
    Do you expect that to include a 4TB model?
    --Lunar

  44. #3194
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    Do you expect that to include a 4TB model?
    I have no idea. SSD's that large aren't on my radar. 512gB is mostly where my interest is. I could maybe be persuaded to 1TB if the performance was considerably better than a 512gB.

  45. #3195
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    I have no idea. SSD's that large aren't on my radar. 512gB is mostly where my interest is. I could maybe be persuaded to 1TB if the performance was considerably better than a 512gB.
    I would be looking at 500/512GB and 4TB, but nothing in between. 500/512GB is enough for the boot drive yet 1-2TB just isn't enough for much data.
    --Lunar

  46. #3196
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    Certainly most computers don't have 6-8 NVMe ports as they do SATA ports.
    But two 4x NVME PCIe boards would solve that.
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  47. #3197
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    There is a card that accepts 4 NVMe drives?
    --Lunar

  48. #3198
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    There is a card that accepts 4 NVMe drives?
    Yes; I have one. It needs a 16x PCIe slot. The card has 4 x U.2 connectors that you can run cables to four 2.5" NVMe drives.
    Last edited by Handruin; 01-26-2018 at 05:24 PM.

  49. #3199
    Wotty wot wot. Storage Is My Life Chewy509's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    There is a card that accepts 4 NVMe drives?
    As per above:

    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy509 View Post
    Find a motherboard with enough PCIe x16 slots and you could use a few of these: http://www.aplicata.com/quattro-410/

    (Not recommending the above mentioned product, but to demonstrate that this sort of product exists).
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

  50. #3200
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    That's a whole new computer.
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