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Thread: Intel Coffee Lake Another Rush Job

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    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Intel Coffee Lake Another Rush Job



    tl;dr: Coffee Lake is basically Kaby Lake with two more cores. Z370 is just Z270 with updates for more cores. Non-K SKUs currently pointless. No released retail pricing. Availability is very low. Intel is still the performance king, but the Ryzen 1700 probably still the best deal. There are rumours that there will be an eight-core chip for Z390. Intel should have just waited to do it right.


    Based on other reading and viewing, it's clear that Intel moved up the release of Coffee Lake just to quash the resurgence of AMD. In doing so, they're cannibalizing seventh-gen processor sales -- but, unlike AMD, they can eat their own young without too many problems. There aren't going to be a lot of actual processors available until next year, and lower-end chipsets probably won't ship until Q2, anyway.

    On the other hand, it sounds like motherboard manufacturers are really getting the shaft due to the new chipset requirement. Since AMD did so well with Ryzen, they got caught with too much stock in Intel 200-series boards and not enough AMD 300-series boards. Now those Intel boards are going to be a tough sell. And they've had to produce a new board which, luckily for them, can be very similar to the previous generation boards.

    We can hope that this move leads to price drops on Intel 7th-gen gear, as well as Ryzen.
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    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    Using the phrase of rush job typically implies a negative connotation related to poor quality. I'm not aware (yet) of Coffee Lake being of lesser quality in any way. Intel certainly pushed forward their schedule at a much-increased rate to compensate for AMD's new product line. Overall this just tells me more of the same that we already know which is competition is good, AMD makes a less-expensive and better value CPU when compared to Intel but Intel is still a performance king if you're willing to pay the price. A 5GHz 8700K OC seems pretty interesting but still not enough to get me to upgrade from my 4790K.

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    So what idiot at AMD thought it was a good idea to make sure their chipset would be confused with the Intel ones. No one was going to confuse AM3 with Z77 or Z87, but they had to roll out a 300 series chipsets when Intel had 200 series chipsets, and now Intel has 300 series chipsets too.

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    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    It looks good to me other that the damned OS needed. It's one more reason to avoid the AMD.
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    Serial computer killer Hairy Aussie CougTek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    So what idiot at AMD thought it was a good idea to make sure their chipset would be confused with the Intel ones. No one was going to confuse AM3 with Z77 or Z87, but they had to roll out a 300 series chipsets when Intel had 200 series chipsets, and now Intel has 300 series chipsets too.
    You seem confused. AMD rolled out their 300 series chipset well before Intel launched their own. The idiots, if idiots there are, are on Intel's marketing team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CougTek View Post
    You seem confused. AMD rolled out their 300 series chipset well before Intel launched their own. The idiots, if idiots there are, are on Intel's marketing team.
    I'm not confused at all. Perhaps you need to brush up on your English. My post indicates the proper order of events.

    But, you're really trying to tell me that if Intel had launched a platform and called it AM3 before AMD did, AMD would would be the idiots for continuing their established naming scheme? And, Intel wouldn't deserve any scorn for intentionally confusing the marketplace?

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    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Serial computer killer Hairy Aussie CougTek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    Perhaps you need to brush up on your English.
    You're a little man. A very little man.

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    Storage? I am Storage! time's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    So what idiot at AMD thought it was a good idea to make sure their chipset would be confused with the Intel ones. No one was going to confuse AM3 with Z77 or Z87, but they had to roll out a 300 series chipsets when Intel had 200 series chipsets, and now Intel has 300 series chipsets too.
    AMD had announced the AM4 platform by May 2015.
    Intel released their 100 series chipsets in 3rd quarter 2015.
    AMD released their 300 series chipsets in September 2016.
    Intel released their 200 series chipsets in January 2017.

    It seems likely that AMD might have used 100 as the numbering to succeed their 900 series chipsets, except for the possible confusion with Intel's equivalent. The 200 series from Intel was expected soon, so they presumably elected to skip to 300. It was entirely Intel's decision to bring forward their own 300 series announcement by a year or two.

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    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handruin View Post
    Using the phrase of rush job typically implies a negative connotation related to poor quality.
    If you look at this launch, it is a rush job.

    There's really low availability, the motherboards aren't all there, and there's no middle- and low-end chipsets/boards for those chips. Intel isn't showing off the superiority of their execution here, because this is the second half-assed launch in a row.

    Basically, it looks like marketing is running around like chickens without heads.
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

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    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    So what idiot at AMD thought it was a good idea to make sure their chipset would be confused with the Intel ones.
    You mean marketing genius.

    People were complaining that reviewers were blowing time on X299 motherboards when X399 was already in the wings. X299 was old news. People wanted to know about AMD and not Intel just based on the names.

    The problem is that Intel didn't come up with a counter-naming scheme, like skipping to 400. They've just continued to walk right into the confusion.
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

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    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    It looks good to me other that the damned OS needed. It's one more reason to avoid the AMD.
    Huh?
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    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Those are two unrelated sentences.

    Having more Intel options makes AMD even less interesting to me.
    All the new Intel/AMD products require Windows 10, so I'm not buying any until absolutely necessary.
    --Lunar

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    Storage? I am Storage! jtr1962's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    All the new Intel/AMD products require Windows 10, so I'm not buying any until absolutely necessary.
    +1000 to that. My last system was still mostly serving me well when it was over ten years old. My present system is nearly 5 years old. However, given the slower rate of CPU advances since then it's highly likely I'll get a good ten more years out of this system. So maybe around 2027 or thereabouts I'll be looking to upgrade, but that will be long after Windows 10 is mostly in the dustbin of history.

    Can't you use some flavor of Linux on the new AMD/Intel products?
    We shall turn you into gas and pour you into the stratosphere. Nothing will remain of you, not a name in a register, not a memory in a living brain. You will be annihilated in the past as well as in the future. You will never have existed.
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    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtr1962 View Post
    +1000 to that. My last system was still mostly serving me well when it was over ten years old. My present system is nearly 5 years old. However, given the slower rate of CPU advances since then it's highly likely I'll get a good ten more years out of this system. So maybe around 2027 or thereabouts I'll be looking to upgrade, but that will be long after Windows 10 is mostly in the dustbin of history.

    Can't you use some flavor of Linux on the new AMD/Intel products?
    I will use Windows 10 in the next build, but then disconnect it from the interwebs which is more of a pain in daily use.
    --Lunar

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    Wotty wot wot. Storage Is My Life Chewy509's Avatar
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    Is Coffee Lake a rush job? I would wait for the errata to be published to find out...

    FYI: 7th Gen spec update + errata
    https://www.intel.com/content/dam/ww...pec-update.pdf

    From the doc, it would appear that some 8th gen CPUs are really 7th gen CPUs rebranded...
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    Wotty wot wot. Storage Is My Life Chewy509's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtr1962 View Post
    +1000 to that. My last system was still mostly serving me well when it was over ten years old. My present system is nearly 5 years old. However, given the slower rate of CPU advances since then it's highly likely I'll get a good ten more years out of this system. So maybe around 2027 or thereabouts I'll be looking to upgrade, but that will be long after Windows 10 is mostly in the dustbin of history.
    IIRC, MS has said that Windows 10 will be the last discrete version of Windows, and all future versions will simply be updates to the platform.
    https://www.theverge.com/2015/5/7/85...ion-of-windows

    Quote Originally Posted by jtr1962 View Post
    Can't you use some flavor of Linux on the new AMD/Intel products?
    Considering both AMD and Intel have developers for both the kernel and various components of X and Wayland, I'm sure GNU/Linux will be very well supported by both going forward.
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

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    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chewy509 View Post
    From the doc, it would appear that some 8th gen CPUs are really 7th gen CPUs rebranded...
    I seems hard to believe that they wouldn't fix some of that stuff in the respin, but here we are....
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

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    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    tl;dr: Intel Coffee Lake line-up doesn't make any sense. If you're a gamer, there's no reason to get the i7s, because the additional performance is not worth the cost. i5s make more sense; Ryzen makes even more sense. Sink the savings into a better graphics card for better gaming performance; you'll get more bang for your buck. If you do productivity applications, Ryzen still has better price/performance.

    Perhaps if the prices drop on the now-forsaken Kaby Lake chips, they will make sense -- even if the motherboards are a dead end.
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

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    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post

    tl;dr: Intel Coffee Lake line-up doesn't make any sense. If you're a gamer, there's no reason to get the i7s, because the additional performance is not worth the cost. i5s make more sense; Ryzen makes even more sense. Sink the savings into a better graphics card for better gaming performance; you'll get more bang for your buck. If you do productivity applications, Ryzen still has better price/performance.

    Perhaps if the prices drop on the now-forsaken Kaby Lake chips, they will make sense -- even if the motherboards are a dead end.
    I'm sure the products are developed well ahead of time and sometimes miss the exact market timing, but I'm not hearing anything from the crackpot worth wasting 25 minutes.
    If the Coffeepot functions properly and the issue is simply paying a few bucks more, I'd be all for that option.
    --Lunar

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    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Indeed. "Not worth the cost" is subjective. Certainly a better value than the second Titan XP.
    Work1: i7-5930K@4.57Ghz, 64GB, 512GB Samsung XP941, 2x 290X
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    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post
    Indeed. "Not worth the cost" is subjective. Certainly a better value than the second Titan XP.
    6 cores has been a decent number for a while and those CPUs were quite expensive not all that long ago.
    People who can't afford or justify a $370 CPU should be using an i5 or something else rather than complaining about it.
    --Lunar

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    I think Sechs must have had a pet killed at the hands of an Intel CPU or something with all that pent up angst.

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    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Worse than the AMD that destroyed my $3K scanner many years ago?
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    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    How did AMD destroy your scanner?

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    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Something on the mainboard. It was a long time ago. I don't think AMD sells boards anymore.
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  27. #27
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    Did AMD ever sell motherboards? I'm still not seeing how this could be AMD's fault if the motherboard manufacturer had a defect.

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    It sounds like it might have been an Abit motherboard...

  29. #29
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure it was AMD. The departed Merc would probably know.

    It was after my Abit BX boards.
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    Storage is cool sdbardwick's Avatar
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    AFAIK, AMD never marketed motherboards - I would have probably bought a couple if they had, and I cannot recall even considering an AMD made motherboard.
    IMHO, the most probable killers would be the (1) power supply/brick for the scanner or (2) computer power supply as cheaply built PSU could go WILDLY out of spec, and potentially trash the 5 volt side of motherboard as well as any expansion card that used 5 volts heavily, like old SCSI adapters.

  31. #31
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    6 cores has been a decent number for a while and those CPUs were quite expensive not all that long ago.
    People who can't afford or justify a $370 CPU should be using an i5 or something else rather than complaining about it.
    You need to get your head out of your Intel. AMD has had relatively inexpensive six-cores for years.

    I'm pretty sure that AMD has released the first dual, triple, quad, hex, and octo core x86 chips for the desktop. While they continue to have the edge in IPC, Intel is playing catch-up in the core department.
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  32. #32
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    I think Sechs must have had a pet killed at the hands of an Intel CPU or something with all that pent up angst.
    They've been after my hard-earned money for years, but I won't let them have it without giving me good value.
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  33. #33
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdbardwick View Post
    AFAIK, AMD never marketed motherboards - I would have probably bought a couple if they had, and I cannot recall even considering an AMD made motherboard.
    Back in the day, they barely had chipsets.

    Even when I had an Opteron-based workstation, nVidia had the chipset of choice.
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  34. #34
    Storage? I am Storage! Tannin's Avatar
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    AMD does not and never has made motherboards.
    It's only crap after it fails. Until then it is the performance deal of the moment. - Dave

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