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Thread: Intel X299: What is it good for?

  1. #51
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    I just don't see that the AMD is that much better. Ultimately it will depend on the affect of increasing cores on the O/C abilities without excessive cooling measures.
    Frankly I'd go with a bit lower grade CPUs if they clocked a bit better, but I want quad channel RAM and a decent number of PCIe lanes.
    Even if AMD isn't better -- just cheaper -- that still makes it the better choice.

    If you were looking at a 10-core i9, why not get a 12-core Threadripper for less?
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  2. #52
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post
    Even if AMD isn't better -- just cheaper -- that still makes it the better choice.

    If you were looking at a 10-core i9, why not get a 12-core Threadripper for less?
    I have not had good experiences with AMD, so I'd like to see the products on the market for 6 months before even considering them. I know there are a bunch of bloggers and goofballs on the internet getting all worked up about the competition aspect in various benchmarks, but the difference in cost of the CPU for a computer I'd use 3 years is trivial compared to storage, monitors, and other components. It's really about what will provide the best single thread performance and at least equal with multi threads.
    --Lunar

  3. #53
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    Are you planning to run Windows 7 on it? FWIW, W7 does not run so well on my work ThinkPad 470s, which is Skylake based.

  4. #54
    Serial computer killer Hairy Aussie CougTek's Avatar
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    In case you want more details on the upcoming Core i9 models.

    For what it's worth, I wouldn't buy anything Intel offers on the X299 platform. I have no confidence at all regarding the reliability of that platform. Most current motherboard designs seem to suffer from over-heating of the VRM and Intel chose to link the cores to the heatspreader with cheap thermal paste, so the CPU often throttles under load even at stock frequency.

    This is a rushed product Intel scrambled in a hurry in order to have an answer against AMD's Threadripper. I won't bite. Their server offering (xeon Scallable) has its merits, altought I think it will suffer in the low-to-midrange market, but the Core i9... nope. Not to my eyes.
    Last edited by CougTek; 07-30-2017 at 10:13 AM. Reason: typo

  5. #55
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    Are you planning to run Windows 7 on it? FWIW, W7 does not run so well on my work ThinkPad 470s, which is Skylake based.
    No. I just assumed that Windows 7 and 8.1 were forbidden by MS-Intel on the 2017 and later CPUs. One of the reasons I did not upgrade this summer was the Windows 10 OS nightmare. I'm procrastinating until next year unless Canon/Nikon/Sony software stops working before then.
    --Lunar

  6. #56
    Learning Storage Performance Newtun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CougTek View Post
    In case you want more details on the upcoming Core i9 models.

    For what it's worth, I wouldn't buy anything Intel offers on the X299 platform. I have no confidence at all regarding the reliability of that platform. Most current motherboard designs seem to suffer from over-heating of the VRM and Intel chose to link the cores to the heatspreader with cheap thermal paste, so the CPU often throttles under load even at stock frequency.

    This is a rushed product Intel scrambled in a hurry in order to have an answer against AMD's Threadripper. I won't bite. Their server offering (xeon Scallable) has its merits, altought I think it will suffer in the low-to-midrange market, but the Core i9... nope. Not to my eyes.
    Weren't the Threadripper motherboard designs kind of "rushed", too? Any feel for their reliability?

  7. #57
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CougTek View Post
    In case you want more details on the upcoming Core i9 models.

    For what it's worth, I wouldn't buy anything Intel offers on the X299 platform. I have no confidence at all regarding the reliability of that platform. Most current motherboard designs seem to suffer from over-heating of the VRM and Intel chose to link the cores to the heatspreader with cheap thermal paste, so the CPU often throttles under load even at stock frequency.

    This is a rushed product Intel scrambled in a hurry in order to have an answer against AMD's Threadripper. I won't bite. Their server offering (xeon Scallable) has its merits, altought I think it will suffer in the low-to-midrange market, but the Core i9... nope. Not to my eyes.
    There is most always an early adopter pain and suffering on the mainboards. I like to buy a v.2 where possible. If the CPUs are crap that is a different issue.
    When is the next process shrink version due or is the next one a new architecture?
    --Lunar

  8. #58
    Serial computer killer Hairy Aussie CougTek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newtun View Post
    Weren't the Threadripper motherboard designs kind of "rushed", too? Any feel for their reliability?
    I cannot speak about the motherboards because I haven't read much about those yet, since they aren't available. The Threadripper CPU though, are at the very least better thermally connected to their heatspreader than their Core i9 opponents. AMD used solder to connect the cores to the heatspreader. Combine that to the fact that the heat comes from 4 different chips, all connected to the four corners of the heatspreader, making for a well spread heat area. I don't see how heat dissipation could become a problem on that design, even if its rated at 180W. That's one least concerned.

    Doesn't mean it will beat Intel in benchmarks, doesn't mean it will be a better bang for the buck, performance-wise, but if I had to buy a higher-end computer and I wanted it to last five years at least, I would buy an AMD-based system this Fall.

  9. #59
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CougTek View Post
    I cannot speak about the motherboards because I haven't read much about those yet, since they aren't available. The Threadripper CPU though, are at the very least better thermally connected to their heatspreader than their Core i9 opponents. AMD used solder to connect the cores to the heatspreader. Combine that to the fact that the heat comes from 4 different chips, all connected to the four corners of the heatspreader, making for a well spread heat area. I don't see how heat dissipation could become a problem on that design, even if its rated at 180W. That's one least concerned.

    Doesn't mean it will beat Intel in benchmarks, doesn't mean it will be a better bang for the buck, performance-wise, but if I had to buy a higher-end computer and I wanted it to last five years at least, I would buy an AMD-based system this Fall.
    That giant CPU package doesn't seem to leave much room for the RAM and cooler. I suppose Noctuas will make a good one for it.
    --Lunar

  10. #60
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    It's really about what will provide the best single thread performance and at least equal with multi threads.
    My feeling is that you don't even need an HEDT machine.

    Then again, when have you ever made a purchasing decision based on the reasonable statements made here?
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  11. #61
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    I just assumed that Windows 7 and 8.1 were forbidden by MS-Intel on the 2017 and later CPUs.
    LOL. Just MS.

    They aren't supporting Ryzen on the older OSes, either.

    If you get a new processor, you must go with Win10.
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  12. #62
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post
    LOL. Just MS.

    They aren't supporting Ryzen on the older OSes, either.

    If you get a new processor, you must go with Win10.
    Yes, it's hopeless.
    --Lunar

  13. #63
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post
    My feeling is that you don't even need an HEDT machine.

    Then again, when have you ever made a purchasing decision based on the reasonable statements made here?
    HEDT? Some are more reasonable than others.

    The most reasonable choice in this case it to wait until the boards and hardware mature.
    --Lunar

  14. #64
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    When Intel came out with X99 motherboards, many of those were rushed and very unstable. In time they'll get better but now with competition.

  15. #65
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    At first looks, it seems that the designers of the x399 boards have learned the lessons of x299. They also aren't hamstrung by having to support two different architectures.

    I was excited to see the announcement of the 8-core Threadripper 1900x. This will be good for folks like me who are more interested in memory and I/O than cores.
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  16. #66
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Considering AMD couldn't provide a working system to someone they knew would be doing a live demo on stage, with a rep on stage no less, it makes me question the reliability of their platform.

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  17. #67
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    I think that you're an Intel fanboy.

    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  18. #68
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post
    At first looks, it seems that the designers of the x399 boards have learned the lessons of x299. They also aren't hamstrung by having to support two different architectures.

    I was excited to see the announcement of the 8-core Threadripper 1900x. This will be good for folks like me who are more interested in memory and I/O than cores.
    Maybe it will overclock better or have some other benefit.
    --Lunar

  19. #69
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post
    I think that you're an Intel fanboy.
    I linked a video from a major content provider that was supposed to be a positive message for AMD that happened to have something that concerns me. And you respond with a video that exactly sells your message from....who?

    I really want AMD to succeed, and will likely have a Threadripper system running before nearly everyone here, but declaring AMD the winner of this round is a significant oversimplification.
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  20. #70
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post
    I think that you'r

    It is nice that AMD is improving, But why are you so Gong Ho on AMD vs. Intel?
    --Lunar

  21. #71
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Why are you guys such bleeding hearts for Intel?
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  22. #72
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    You haven't defended your position, and are repeatedly using inflammatory language. Try being less of a dick and I'll be more inclined to have a conversation.
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  23. #73
    Storage? I am Storage! Howell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post
    Why are you guys such bleeding hearts for Intel?
    You have set up a false dichotomy. Wanting AMD to be better is not the same as giving Intel a pass.

  24. #74
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post
    Why are you guys such bleeding hearts for Intel?
    I had to find some definitions for that term, which are a bit confusing. Poli Sci was never my area.

    My thinking is usually to choose the larger, better known company when I don't know much about the industry.
    For example I know of Synology and QNAP. There are other brands like Thecus and Noontec, but I would not buy them even if they are cheaper or better in some performance category.
    It doesn't mean that I have the bleeding hearts for the Synology and QNAP. For all I know maybe they use child slaves or prisoners to assemble the products.
    The reality is that so many companies have deplorable business and human resource policies that most likely nothing would be acceptable to buy if one looked hard enough.
    --Lunar

  25. #75
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    1920X (and supporting parts) and Vega Frontier Liquid ordered. Should be here in a week or so. Still haven't ordered an i9, but will once they are in stock again. Any particular tests people want to see?
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  26. #76
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post

    1920X (and supporting parts) and Vega Frontier Liquid ordered. Should be here in a week or so. Still haven't ordered an i9, but will once they are in stock again. Any particular tests people want to see?
    So it needs liquid cooling? I was hoping there would be a big Nocturnal HSF that would be enough for most purposes.
    --Lunar

  27. #77
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    All the current CPUs and GPUs from all the manufacturers throttle their performance if temps get to a threshold. While I suspect that a really good air cooler in a really well ventilated case would be good enough, I want to remove that variable from my benchmarks. So the GPU has a factory waterblock and radiator, and the CPU will be running with a 2x 140mm AIO self-contained liquid cooler. From what I've read, the VRM on the X399 motherboards can be an issue as well, so that will have lots of active air on it anyway.
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  28. #78
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post
    All the current CPUs and GPUs from all the manufacturers throttle their performance if temps get to a threshold. While I suspect that a really good air cooler in a really well ventilated case would be good enough, I want to remove that variable from my benchmarks. So the GPU has a factory waterblock and radiator, and the CPU will be running with a 2x 140mm AIO self-contained liquid cooler. From what I've read, the VRM on the X399 motherboards can be an issue as well, so that will have lots of active air on it anyway.
    Is the radiator fan controlled by temperature? The problem is that I want a computer to be quiet the 98% of the time it is idling, but then speed up when cooling is needed.
    I also don't want the leaks. What do you use to absorb the liquid when the system ruptures?
    --Lunar

  29. #79
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    I've never had an AIO leak in any way. I've had the pump fail and the system crash, but it didn't break anything. Some of the coolers support controlling the pump speed via USB interface and software, but I don't want software controlling my cooling system. The pump isn't a significant source of noise, but the fans are. Those can go to headers on the motherboard and controlled via the BIOS.
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  30. #80
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    What is the AIO?
    --Lunar

  31. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    What is the AIO?
    All in One. The cooling system, radiator, fan, hoses, etc are sold as a complete, ready to work unit.
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  32. #82
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowhiker View Post
    All in One. The cooling system, radiator, fan, hoses, etc are sold as a complete, ready to work unit.
    Aren't there different materials with metallic and composite components, several couplings, polymer tubing, etc.?
    I was hoping for a model number.
    --Lunar

  33. #83
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post
    1920X (and supporting parts) and Vega Frontier Liquid ordered. Should be here in a week or so. Still haven't ordered an i9, but will once they are in stock again. Any particular tests people want to see?
    So you can run really Cinebench benchmark runs really fast in a loop and post the results online for bragging rights? Or do you have some very thread heavy tasks to throw at it?

    Multiple simultaneous x264 transcoding sessions and mass FLAC to AAC/MP3 conversions is about all I do where my 2x 10C/20T E5 v2 Xeon system is really flexing its muscles. It's very powerful, but most of the time it sits powered off since I have no need of all those cores on any regular basis. Even my desktop with 8C/16T (E5-2687W v2) is quite overkill for what I do most of the time.

  35. #85
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Eventually it will run a bunch of virtual machines, but I'm curious how many cores I can get above zero running a worst-case gaming scenario. In one of the games I play I run 5 clients simultaneously along with a half-dozen supporting applications and screen capture. The 6900k I'm on now will show some usage on all the threads.
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  36. #86
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    I don't understand all that. Is it for business or you are buying it personally?
    --Lunar

  37. #87
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Part of the R&D budget at work. I want to make sure there are no issues with the Threadripper platform on ESXi before I buy them for production use. The GPU I'll probably use for Etherium or something after I'm done with the benchmarks (unless it is better than the 1080ti I'm running now).
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post
    In one of the games I play I run 5 clients simultaneously
    Multiboxing?
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  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post
    Part of the R&D budget at work. I want to make sure there are no issues with the Threadripper platform on ESXi before I buy them for production use.
    Isn't it rather unlikely that a brand new platform from AMD that just came out isn't going to have issues with ESXi? You're on the bleeding edge and I expect it will be bloody.

  40. #90
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowhiker View Post
    Multiboxing?
    Yup.
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  41. #91
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    I now have all the parts except for the processors. Both the 1920X and 7900X are giving very vague ETAs, though the Frontier Edition Liquid showed up tonight.
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  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    My thinking is usually to choose the larger, better known company when I don't know much about the industry.
    For example I know of Synology and QNAP. There are other brands like Thecus and Noontec, but I would not buy them even if they are cheaper or better in some performance category.
    This is the "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM," theory of tech buying.
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  43. #93
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Parts.jpg
    Still missing the 7900X, some RAM, and the Titan XP. Should be good times.
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  44. #94
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    What are your plans with these new systems? I love the Threadripper product packaging.

  45. #95
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    General performance testing and tinkering. Run the stuff my clients usually run on systems and test a few installs just to be familiar. Then (hopefully) still sell them off at a premium due to availability shortages. But I usually end up keeping something.
    Work1: i7-5930K@4.57Ghz, 64GB, 512GB Samsung XP941, 2x 290X
    Home1: i7-7700k@5Ghz, 32GB, 1TB 960 Evo, 2x 1080
    Home2: i7-6700k@4.4Ghz, 32GB@3Ghz, 2x SM951, 2x Titan X

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