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Thread: NAS Drive

  1. #251
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    I recall in days of yore there were dire warnings about mismatched drives in the RAID. Does it matter much nowadays if a new drive of another model/RPM is added to a NAS so long as they are all NAS/enterprise grade drives?
    --Lunar

  2. #252
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    I prefer to keep them the same but I don't think it matters as much if you're a single consumer/user of the storage array. There is the possibility that you'll be limited to the performance of the slowest drive.

  3. #253
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handruin View Post
    I prefer to keep them the same but I don't think it matters as much if you're a single consumer/user of the storage array. There is the possibility that you'll be limited to the performance of the slowest drive.
    I started with the Reds and was thinking about adding the Golds or similar Seagate 7200 RPM drives.
    --Lunar

  4. #254
    Serial computer killer Hairy Aussie CougTek's Avatar
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    Go for helium-filled hard drives. Every report I've read underlines their superior reliability. HGST has exemplary failure numbers, but the Seagate helium-filled drives are supposed to be quite good too. I've read nothing so far regarding reliability about the WD Gold.

  5. #255
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    A year ago the Reds were the only reasonable helium 8TB drives for my NADS (6 drives in RAID 6). At the time the HGST He8 did not seem like a good option as the 10TB Enterprise Seagates were newer technology, but those four are being used as primary drives at least until January. From what I could see there are no 8TB helium Seagate drives yet. I could just buy a couple more Reds but figured that a couple of 7200 RPM drives would have some future life. I have no idea why the Gold is cheaper than the Red Pro, but it has the higher durability/reliability specs of the HGST and Seagate enterprise drives.
    --Lunar

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by CougTek View Post
    Go for helium-filled hard drives. Every report I've read underlines their superior reliability. HGST has exemplary failure numbers, but the Seagate helium-filled drives are supposed to be quite good too. I've read nothing so far regarding reliability about the WD Gold.
    They all seem rather expensive. Like $400+ for a 10TB Enterprise grade one.

  7. #257
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    The 3 last year were 1700. I'm only buying two 8TB to fill the NAS now.

    I'm going to buy a good new NAS and put the 4 10TB and a couple more in it next year.
    That will be $3K for the Synolog y without drives.
    --Lunar

  8. #258
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    I'm clearly the odd-man out in getting more spindles of consumer-grade drives, and just expecting them to fail on the regular....
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  9. #259
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    I'm similar to you. I buy consumer grade drives and just expect they will fail.

  10. #260
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    Is there a 10TB consumer grade drive that isn't shingled?

  11. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    Is there a 10TB consumer grade drive that isn't shingled?
    That would be the Barracuda Pro. All the 10TB Seagate drives from the basic NAS model (cheapest of all) to the Enterprise are within a fairly small price range.
    I really don't understand the pricing structure, but the drives probably have many common parts.
    --Lunar

  12. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    That would be the Barracuda Pro. All the 10TB Seagate drives from the basic NAS model (cheapest of all) to the Enterprise are within a fairly small price range.
    I really don't understand the pricing structure, but the drives probably have many common parts.
    I've seen the SAS Enterprise version for $420 too. I don't see why someone would try to save $20 and get a significantly lower MTBF and a slightly slower drive. So they give you data recovery. Big deal... I'm sure that doesn't help someone using them in RAID. It's not like you're paying double to go Enterprise.

  13. #263
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    Looks like WD announced a 10TB Red (5400RPM $494) and a 10TB Red Pro NAS (7200RPM $533) SATA drives that aren't what I'd consider enterprise but they are definitely asking enterprise prices for a SATA drive.

  14. #264
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Just ordered a stack of the 10TB Seagate Enterprise drives. We'll see how they do.
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  15. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post
    Just ordered a stack of the 10TB Seagate Enterprise drives. We'll see how they do.
    Which model and how much were they each?

  16. #266
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post
    Just ordered a stack of the 10TB Seagate Enterprise drives. We'll see how they do.
    Mine are still fine after nearly a year. I would think the current production would have worked out any bugs if there were any.
    Are they for work or your personal NAS?
    --Lunar

  17. #267
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Paid $406 each for 4x ST10000NM0016 - still waiting on one. Will be going into a Synology DS1517+ along with 16GB of RAM, X540T2, and a 1.2TB S3500. This will be to play with iSCSI hosting of ESXi VMs for vMotion and possibly HA along with normal fileserver duties.
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  18. #268
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    If it works as I expect it to the production environment will probably use vSAN.
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  19. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post
    Paid $406 each for 4x ST10000NM0016
    Since when is 4 drives a stack? Especially by ddrueding standards.

  20. #270
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post
    Paid $406 each for 4x ST10000NM0016 - still waiting on one. Will be going into a Synology DS1517+ along with 16GB of RAM, X540T2, and a 1.2TB S3500. This will be to play with iSCSI hosting of ESXi VMs for vMotion and possibly HA along with normal fileserver duties.
    I'll be interested in your experience with the drives in the DS1517+.
    IIRC two SSDs are needed for read/write caching, so you would only be caching reads with the one SSD. I'm curious if it helps much considering the CPU used.
    The M.2 adapter and X540T2 cannot be both used since the DS1517+ has only one PCIe slot.
    --Lunar

  21. #271
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
    Since when is 4 drives a stack? Especially by ddrueding standards.
    When it is 40GB of raw storage

    My current 8-drive array at home has less capacity, even after redundancy is subtracted out.
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  22. #272
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    I'll be interested in your experience with the drives in the DS1517+.
    IIRC two SSDs are needed for read/write caching, so you would only be caching reads with the one SSD. I'm curious if it helps much considering the CPU used.
    The M.2 adapter and X540T2 cannot be both used since the DS1517+ has only one PCIe slot.
    Not the fastest, but good for testing. The smallest unit that ticks all the feature boxes I was looking for. I went with 4x 10GB to fit a normal SATA SSD because the NIC and M.2 couldn't fit at the same time. Shame about that.
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  23. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post
    When it is 40GB of raw storage

    My current 8-drive array at home has less capacity, even after redundancy is subtracted out.
    Lightweight!

    What redundancy are you using this time around? You're only after 20TB?

    I was thinking of something like 10 of them in RAID-6, as an array upgrade to my server (though I don't need more space). I'd move the current 10x6TB RAID-6 array into the still to be assembled "new"/old mishmash backup server, but that would be some time in the future when the drives are a little cheaper and I've got more disposable income.

    I've got all the parts but the new drives. The motherboard from the old server. A Q9550S CPU from eBay, an extra set of the same SAS RAID card and SAS expander that are in the main sever. RAM from the old server, 10gig Ethernet card, even have a used 4U 20 bay Norco enclosure. I suppose I should put it together with the currently unused old 8x2TB drives and make sure it all works and plays nice first.

  24. #274
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Yup, just 20TB. Mostly running the storage for the 3 VMs that will be on a pair of ESXi machines using all the redundancy options, some basic file server stuff, and storage for the security cameras and call recording package. Only 5 concurrent users at that location, but they make ~$11M/year so some significant expense is worthwhile to keep them operating.
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  25. #275
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Do you expect the DS1517+ to be much better than the QNAP TS-831X?
    --Lunar

  26. #276
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Not really, but at this point I am familiar enough with Synology products that going that route will simplify the deployment process and allow me to get to testing more quickly. The TS-831X has more bays, but the feature set seems similar.
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  27. #277
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post
    Not really, but at this point I am familiar enough with Synology products that going that route will simplify the deployment process and allow me to get to testing more quickly. The TS-831X has more bays, but the feature set seems similar.
    The other place has a review.
    The transfer rates for RAID 5 don't look too bad even with WD Reds. http://www.storagereview.com/images/...throughput.png
    --Lunar

  28. #278
    Storage is cool DrunkenBastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Handruin View Post
    Looks like WD announced a 10TB Red (5400RPM $494) and a 10TB Red Pro NAS (7200RPM $533) SATA drives that aren't what I'd consider enterprise but they are definitely asking enterprise prices for a SATA drive.
    Best Buy has the 8TB WD EasyStor external USB 3 drives on sale for $180, which contains a WD Red drive. Limit of three per order.

  29. #279
    Storage? I am Storage! Clocker's Avatar
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    I bought two and they are working great. The instructions for removing the drives from the enclosures make it super easy. Done in just a couple minutes.

  30. #280
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clocker View Post
    I bought two and they are working great. The instructions for removing the drives from the enclosures make it super easy. Done in just a couple minutes.
    Is that actually a RED drive or a white label drive without the NASware firmware?
    --Lunar

  31. #281
    Storage is cool DrunkenBastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    Is that actually a RED drive or a white label drive without the NASware firmware?
    Its a real red drive. Price on that has gone up to $250, looks like the new deal this week is on the 4TB EasyStores down from $199 to $99, however at this size range you aren't guaranteed a specific drive type, like you are with the 8.

  32. #282
    NVIDIA> AMD Fixture Handruin's Avatar
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    Bummer so I missed out on the $180 EasyStor deal?

  33. #283
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    I tried to expand the TS-831X RAD, but it is not allowed.
    I have 6x8 drives and was adding the 7th. The message makes no sense as there are already far more than 16GB in the array.
    TS-831X_Max_Capacity_Exceeded.PNG
    --Lunar

  34. #284
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    RAID arrays can be bigger, but once an array is greater than 16TB, online expansion is no longer possible. I refer you to the fine print here:

    https://www.qnap.com/en-us/product/model.php?II=237
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  35. #285
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Is that a QNAP issue or the same for Symbology NAS? It makes adding disks impractical. I should have purchased all 8 last year in that case.
    --Lunar

  36. #286
    Storage is cool DrunkenBastard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    Is that a QNAP issue or the same for Symbology NAS? It makes adding disks impractical. I should have purchased all 8 last year in that case.
    https://forum.synology.com/enu/viewtopic.php?t=64944

    Looks like you should be good for >16TB expansion with the more recent Synology units.

  37. #287
    Storage is cool DrunkenBastard's Avatar
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    Apparently there is a max volume expansion limit of 108TB to be aware of in the DS1817+ as an example. Could come into play as drive density continues to increase. But certainly more flexibility than 16TB.

  38. #288
    Storage is cool DrunkenBastard's Avatar
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    "Owing to technical limitations, the size of a single volume is limited to 16, 108, or 200 terabytes (TB) on certain Synology NAS models1.

    ...
    Note:
    For more information on the limitation of each Synology NAS model, please refer to the items of Maximum Single Volume Size and Maximum Internal Volume Number in its specifications. Some models with expandable RAM can be upgraded to 32GB or higher to support a single volume size of 200TB on RAID 5 or RAID 6 groups. Please refer to your model’s datasheet for more information."

    https://www.synology.com/en-us/knowl...ize_limitation

    Looks like you would want to double check the specific model you are looking at.

  39. #289
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Maybe they should have used ZFS....
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  40. #290
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenBastard View Post
    "Owing to technical limitations, the size of a single volume is limited to 16, 108, or 200 terabytes (TB) on certain Synology NAS models1.

    ...
    Note:
    For more information on the limitation of each Synology NAS model, please refer to the items of Maximum Single Volume Size and Maximum Internal Volume Number in its specifications. Some models with expandable RAM can be upgraded to 32GB or higher to support a single volume size of 200TB on RAID 5 or RAID 6 groups. Please refer to your model’s datasheet for more information."

    https://www.synology.com/en-us/knowl...ize_limitation

    Looks like you would want to double check the specific model you are looking at.
    The maximum volume size is not so much of an issue as the ability to add additional disks. The Synology KB does not list any specific limitation when expanding, but I would not count on that.

    Obviously I should have fully populated the TS-831TX from the start rather than spending days making a temporary backup from 10TB drives to a bunch of old 4-6TB drives. :doh:
    --Lunar

  41. #291
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    I tried to rebuild the TS-831X, but it is not going very well. I have learned that the size of your inoides affects the maximum volume size.
    --Lunar

  42. #292
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    The DS3617xs now has 7x 10TB Seagate in the RAID 6. I should not need to expand it for a while, but those 5 open bays will be used somehow.
    It will probably take a couple days to restore and verify data on both the 831x and the DS3617xs.
    I really prefer Synology overall for the OS and flexibility, but I don't think it is worth replacing the 831x as the backup.
    --Lunar

  43. #293
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Put SSDs in a pair of those bays as a RAID1 read/write cache. Really helpful.
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  44. #294
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddrueding View Post
    Put SSDs in a pair of those bays as a RAID1 read/write cache. Really helpful.
    That won't slow down the write speeds for large files? Which SSDs are you using and how are they kept clean or does the NAS trim itself?
    --Lunar

  45. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    That won't slow down the write speeds for large files?
    Define "large".

  46. #296
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    20MB-4GB. Files under that size are mainly stored in the computer on SSDs.
    --Lunar

  47. #297
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Nope. I put 500GB SSDs in mine, their STR should be at least as good as the HDDs. And that is before two operations start happening at the same time.
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  48. #298
    I can't believe I'm a Fixture LunarMist's Avatar
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    I have a spare 250GB SSD and will pick up another 250 for testing. The NAS has 16GB RAM, most of which is free for caching. Is it worth upgrading to 48GB for $450?
    --Lunar

  49. #299
    Storage? I am Storage! sechs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarMist View Post
    I really prefer Synology overall for the OS
    LOL
    It's Linux!
    It's not what you know, but who you know.

  50. #300
    Fixture ddrueding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sechs View Post
    LOL
    It's Linux!
    It is Linux, but in practice it is as far as possible from a DIY Linux solution. You don't need to know anything about Linux, do any research into hardware or software, or bother with assembling the thing yourself.
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