I need a drink [Archive]

flagreen

06-13-2002, 02:38 PM

Bill, are you still friends with any of your "ex"-es?
No not really. It only causes problems. The first Ex I would not want to be friends with. Once the trust was broken with her we never got along.

The second is a wonderful person but she did not think it a good idea to remain friends. After 10 years I still miss her and love her though I no longer hurt over the divorce or pine away over her. I wanted to remain friends but in hind sight, she was right. In truth what I really wanted was a way to hang on to her because I still loved her. But it would have only led to emotional confusion and more hurt for each of us had we stayed friends. I think in order for a couple to remain friends after a break up, neither must be in love with the other. Otherwise it's only asking for a prolongation of the agony.

Bartender

06-13-2002, 02:38 PM

Tim, Merc's expression to drink from the river Lethe is Greek Mythology. He would prefer a lethal dose so that his memories and the pain of his ex would be gone for good. Living can be painful, but it can also reward one with great joy.

Prof.Wizard

06-13-2002, 02:55 PM

Psychology says that those with really strong memories are not so lucky as many of you think...
Yes, they may achieve higher scores in some tests, exams, etc. but if they are hit by a strong sentimental crisis (ie. a break-up) they have a hard time to forget and go on. This provokes in some cases unsurmountable emotional instabilities and(in most of cases)... bad mood for a loooooooooooooong amount of time.

I wish there was this river Lethe somewhere near you Merc. But ancient Greeks were good in myths... and myths are only fictious unfortunately... :(

Don't worry. Do you want me to tell you something to make yourself forget? Do you want to discuss something else? Anything...
Let me throw a topic: let's talk about Windows, shall we?! :P

Mercutio

06-13-2002, 04:07 PM

I don't drink but right now I think I could be tempted.

The thing is... in order for me to get through the day I have to basically wrap my mind around the finality of what's happened. I'm trying very hard to be friends (I try to look and see a sister) and be supporting of my ex but for her, nothing changed - even about her feelings for me - except the sort of, um, intimacy she's looking for.
So she still treats me on her better days much the same way as before and it's very tough to handle.

Prof.Wizard

06-13-2002, 07:29 PM

Sam,

have you considered breaking off completely?
(no calls, no visits, no sights...)

Man I know it's a decision not to be taken with a "light" heart, but this situation is only harming you more IMHO.

Unfortunately, there are NO median solution if one of the two sides is still in love. Or you're couple or you seperate for a couple of months, till you win back your personal autonomy.

Hey, I'm not suggesting here to forget her... just to give time to YOURSELF.

Mercutio

06-13-2002, 09:06 PM

I really can't do that, PW.

When all is said and done for me, I'm the one with an income and a (mostly) low-stress life, not to mention a whole bunch of people who'll say "poor bastard, no wonder he never leaves his apartment".
Amy gets a choice (sort of) in pursuing her path, but no input in how the other people in her life choose to deal with her choice (this is Indiana. It won't go well). She needs support. When she doesn't get it she dwindles into herself and into depression/inaction, which is a really scary thing.

Cliptin

06-13-2002, 11:54 PM

have you considered breaking off completely?
(no calls, no visits, no sights...)

I think this is the best way. It can take awhile to heal and begin to trust again (10 years for me) but things would certainly have been more prolonged, bitter and generally more unpleasant had I not made a clean break.

James

06-14-2002, 12:17 AM

have you considered breaking off completely?
(no calls, no visits, no sights...)

Ditto.

I've gone through one major episode a bit like yours Merc; in the end it got so messy she was threatening suicide (and then saying she was pregnant), and I got excused from my results for one year of university on psychological grounds. In hindsight I realise the clean break would have been better for all concerned, however unimaginable it seemed at the time. I cannot begin to express what a nightmare it all was, but trust me I wouldn't want my greatest enemy to go through it.

It is Amy's choice to do what she is doing. If she is doing that based on the knowledge that you'll continue to support her financially and be there for her to come back to if she needs to, it's not a real choice, it's exploiting you. If she's exploiting you, what does that show you her opinion of you is?

Cliptin

06-14-2002, 12:25 AM

I finally had to decide to let other people make decisions for me. Where to live.. stuff like that. Although I had made the decision to call it quits, I was not emotionally strong enough to enforce the decision on myself.

I agree with on his last paragraph. You are no ones fall back plan.

Mercutio

06-14-2002, 06:23 AM

Well, Amy couldn't be pregnant (yes, I'm sure). Suicidal? Not that either.
She's actually getting better a lot faster than I am (got some response from online personals I encouraged her to do) Me as a "fall back plan"... er, not really.
Maybe a little. But more as a shoulder to cry on and a place to sleep - things one does for a friend.

After hearing her talk about it I don't think she has a "choice" at all, except the degree to which she chooses to be open about her life.

I guess I'm just trying to do the *right* thing. Sometimes I wonder if I'm the coward for not being able to make a clean break or the coward for not wanting to stand by her as she finds a the good and bad parts of her new self. I really can't do both. I feel like walking away now would be turning my back on a friend in need.

Prof.Wizard

06-14-2002, 07:06 AM

But more as a shoulder to cry on and a place to sleep - things one does for a friend.
But what friend Mercutio? WHAT FRIEND?! :x
(these things infuriate me...)

You CAN'T be friends for the time being. It's too early for that part. You were lovers less than a month ago. I'm not advocating that ex's can't make very good friendships, but let the time pass first. Let the wounds heal. And let yourself find another girlfriend.

There is an aphorism regarding love relations:
Do first what's good for you and then for the other side...

This is not applied to family and same-sex (provided you're straight) friendship relations. But to love affairs is a must!

Fushigi

06-14-2002, 07:42 AM

Bill, are you still friends with any of your "ex"-es?As mentioned in another thread, I am still friends with my ex-wife. But it wasn't an overnight transition and she's not a friend that I get together with on any regular basis.

Once we were divorced, she moved out. Actually, she moved from Hammond to Michigan City. We talked on the phone periodically over the next couple of years. During that time I wasn't seeing anyone; I felt I needed time away from relationships to heal & understand the experience so that I (hopefully) wouldn't repeat the mistakes in the future.

I didn't concentrate on grokking the experience; instead I let my subconscious work out the details for me over time. I don't think I could have figured it out without being alone. Living with her or being involved in any other relationships would not have granted me the perspective I needed to understand all aspects of what happened.

As has been said, a clean break, as hurtful as it will be at first, is what you need to heal. You need to let her know what her presence is doing to your emotional state and that you won't be able to get on with your life as long as she's still playing a major role. I sincerely believe that her remaining as a roommate will do nothing but prolong your pain and defer your healing. Leaving may place her in a difficult situation, but that is the path she has chosen (or was chosen for her) and she must be prepared to handle the consequences.

NW IN is not going to be a good place for her to pursue what she's after. While people of similar interests are everywhere, the ability to meet, maintain, and express relationships is more limited. A more liberal area -- like Bloomington, IN -- would be a better environment for her. She going to IU-NW? Could she transfer to IU-Bloomington?

- Fushigi

Cliptin

06-14-2002, 09:08 AM

Additionally, not breaking it off cleanly may do more harm to your friendship in the future. You very well may wind up bitter towards her in the future.

Prof.Wizard

06-14-2002, 09:56 AM

Additionally, not breaking it off cleanly may do more harm to your friendship in the future. You very well may wind up bitter towards her in the future.
Exactly.

James

06-15-2002, 02:25 AM

A saying of my father's has always rung true for me : "It's always better to make a bad decision than no decision at all." You have to take responsibility for your own life, you can't try to be everything to everyone. Trying to keep everyone happy usually results in no-one being happy - Shakespeare gives some great advice in Polonius's speech, of which perhaps "... and this above all : to thine own self be true" is the most important and identified as such.

In fact, a speech worthy of inclusion in its entirety, methinks :

LORD POLONIUS
Yet here, Laertes! aboard, aboard, for shame!
The wind sits in the shoulder of your sail,
And you are stay'd for. There; my blessing with thee!
And these few precepts in thy memory
See thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue,
Nor any unproportioned thought his act.
Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.
Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel;
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment
Of each new-hatch'd, unfledged comrade. Beware
Of entrance to a quarrel, but being in,
Bear't that the opposed may beware of thee.
Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man,
And they in France of the best rank and station
Are of a most select and generous chief in that.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all: to thine ownself be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell: my blessing season this in thee!

Anyway, I've said my bit.

Mercutio

06-15-2002, 12:46 PM

I went to a big charity function last night; met several folks who share Amy's current lifestyle. None of them, out of nine, had heard of a supportive "ex." Apparently I'm supposed to turn into a horse's ass and give my ex-girlfriend all the more reason to change. I haven't done that and apparently that puts me in "uncharted territory", even when eight of the nine women I talked to had a story similar to Amy's.

I don't know whether I'll be able to actually stay with her much longer. She's well on her way to her first "experience" - found a few candidates online - and that's tough for me. On the other hand, she's getting to the point where her parents are asking questions she can't easily answer and that's going to be a major stress for her without some help.

I suppose right now I'll continue to make the same bad decision I'm making, at least until she crosses a couple more hurdles.

flagreen

06-15-2002, 12:56 PM

Last time I looked, you were a human being too Mercutio! You may not realise it but you need more help right now than she does. Get out of there! You are in a very unhealth enviroment living there. It's time you started taking care of yourself first you owe that not only to yourself but to your parents and friends as well. And we demand you start taking care of you first!

James

06-15-2002, 08:58 PM

Okay, I can't help myself - I need to say one more thing.

You need to think if you were in Amy's position, would you do the same thing to her as she is doing to you?

Mercutio

06-15-2002, 09:58 PM

Um, it's an odd situation. I'm the first to admit that. But yes, she would stay, if that's what I wanted. And I would. Our friendship is exceedingly important to both of us and so is the support we've provided each other for our entire lives.

I'll say, too, that there is a DISGUSTING lack of help online for anyone trying to support another person in a lifestyle choice: There's plenty for the person in question, and TONS of "de-programming"-like material. Not much else.

I see a need there.

flagreen

06-15-2002, 10:18 PM

And how much support is she giving you now in your time of need? Does she realise what this is doing to you? Have you told her? Is she aware of how hurtful this is for you?

Mercutio

06-15-2002, 10:37 PM

jtr1962

06-15-2002, 11:33 PM

She feels extremely guilty. There's nothing to be done about it, really. Her perspective is that she's in a relationship that is everything she wants... except for the little matter of my gender. She has expressed concern that she might be throwing away her chance at happiness, but at the same time, for as much as she tried to pretend otherwise, her physical need is an important part of her life and something she needs to explore.

This sounds to me like she's still in love with you but has physical needs that you can't fulfill. One thing curious about all this is why did it take her so long to discover that she, um, preferred woman? And since it did, maybe her desire is really more of a curiosity than an actual sexual preference. She may try to satisfy that curiosity, and find out that the grass is really not greener on the other side. I won't even pretend to understand any of what she's going through(frankly, I don't understand homosexuality, nor do I wish to) but those are my thoughts on the matter.

I'm not even sure of how to advise you in this matter since your relationship with Amy seems very complicated. Sometimes hearing stories like yours, or people in unhappy marriages, makes me think that I'm better off not complicating my life with relationships. I was seriously in love with someone quite some time ago, and the whole affair left such a bitter taste in my mouth that I haven't dated since. I can only hope that you don't go through something similar.

flagreen

06-15-2002, 11:47 PM

Well you'll probably hate me for saying this Mercutio but if she really loved you she wouldn't be doing this to you. Having been married twice myself I can tell you that one is occasionally tempted by others. Even if just out of curiosity. But one does not give in to this temptation because he or she loves their mate. Which means they not only have what we all know as feelings of love but also includes respect for each other and loyalty. Don't be confused by the fact that her attraction is for other women. It is no different than if she were attracted to, and willing to experiment with, other men. Would you put up with that as well?

Mercutio

06-16-2002, 12:17 AM

That's the gist of the situation. As for unexplored curiousity, the best analysis I've had so far is that certain aspects of my personality make/made the experience of being with me as close to fulfilling as they could be for her.
Read into that what you will.

Several close friends of mine are gay, but they realized their preference in adolesence. I really hadn't considered how hard it actually is to make the fundamental change in identity that my "ex" is now going through, and that is a big part of the reason I'm still here.

As far as understanding homosexuals goes, I guess the easiest thing to say is, "why the hell should anybody care?" It's upsetting on some level that it's an issue at all. Does anyone get upset if the people next door are vegetarians?

flagreen

06-16-2002, 12:22 AM

Has anyone suggested to you that may be in the early stages of the grieving process which is typically a state of denial?

Mercutio

06-16-2002, 12:41 AM

Bill: Yes, within the limits of her taking responsibility for her health and well-being, and being honest with me about her actions.

Of course, I trust her enough to not do that, too. And the issue is now apparently moot.

Love is a great many things to different people, I guess.

Mercutio

06-16-2002, 12:43 AM

Has anyone suggested to you that may be in the early stages of the grieving process which is typically a state of denial?

Yes. I'm painfully aware of that possibility.

flagreen

06-16-2002, 01:29 AM

Well time heals all wounds. I feel for you having been there myself. No offence intended in anything I've said here.

Mercutio

07-01-2002, 03:43 AM

She has told me. Now she knows, and I know.

On June 30th, 1997, we became a couple. On June 30th, 2002, she told me that none of it mattered any more.

Prof.Wizard

07-01-2002, 09:00 AM

Sam, these calculations make you worse, don't you understand?! :(

Let it go and she might be back before you know it. Or you might find another before the end of this year...
Just let it go, let it be.

Groltz

07-01-2002, 09:43 AM

She has told me. Now she knows, and I know.

On June 30th, 1997, we became a couple. On June 30th, 2002, she told me that none of it mattered any more.

Condolences.

The date that will now become the most important is the one where old ties are broken and you can forge ahead to a new and positive future with someone worth your attentions.

Bartender

07-01-2002, 12:01 PM

I'm sorry to hear about all of your misfortunes Mercutio. I don't have any advice for you, but I do believe that you'll manage. I would hope that there is now closure (albeit painfully memorable), and that you will press forward.

Handruin

07-01-2002, 12:15 PM

I would also like to wish my best to you. I'm also sorry to hear of the misfortunes.

Dozer

07-01-2002, 12:42 PM

I was divorced about three years ago, after my ex started seeing someone else behind my back. One of the things that I learned through that experience was that no one person could tell me how I should feel or deal with my feelings. I had a lot of advice, a lot of people that wanted to help but were just a bit misguided. I didn't blame them, I would know how to react to someone going through a similar situation unless I had been through it myself. The most fulfilling and healing moments were hiking with my dad, who somehow understood that silence and peace were sometimes the best healers. And I also relied on my faith in God to bring me through the pain. I can say now that I am a much stronger person because of the experience.

Merc, every situation is different, every relationship is as unique as the people involved, and no one can tell you exactly how to respond or act given a situation. It has always been my experience that we know in our heart what is the right decision and what is the wrong decision. It is how we respond to what is in our heart that makes the difference.

I wish you well, however the situation turns out.

The JoJo

07-01-2002, 12:53 PM

My deepest condolences Mercutio.

Hang in there!

Tannin

07-01-2002, 09:10 PM

The consensus view appears to be that you are a fool, Mercutio, that you are crazy to let your feelings twist you into being an ongoing support for a woman that no longer loves you.

Well, to hell with consensus!

You make your own decision, you follow your own heart, and you stick things through. Difficult? Of course it's difficult, quite possibly more difficult than making a clean break and casting Amy out of your life. But the dificulty is at least in the same order of magnitude: it's maybe 50% harder than just walking away and starting afresh with nothing; with no goal, no purpose, no love and no hope.

I don't mean that there is no hope, I mean that you feel no hope. No matter how you deal with this current crisis, you are unlikely to feel any sense of hope or optimism about your future for quite some time, at least a year or so. Perhaps longer. And that will be true no matter what you do. So you just have to learn to operate without feeling hope. It's neither pleasant nor easy, but nothing you can do will take this burden away from you, and there is nothing bar the passage of time that will make it less painful, so you might as well do as you are already doing, and plan on doing something useful with your otherwise wasted year.

Amy has made it impossible for you to love her in the conventional boy-girl way any longer, but in your heart you are resolved to be a loyal and true friend to her despite everything. Good! That is true love at work. It will cost you a great deal of pain but in the long run it will be worthwhile.

There will come a time in the future when you are attracted to someone else and begin a new relationship. Don't worry about that for now. In fact, don't ever worry about that. It will come along when the time is ripe and there is nothing you can do to hurry it, and not much you can do to delay it. In fact the worst thing you can do is waste time and energy hoping for it or trying to bring it about. It will come in its own good time, not before. Turn your attention to other things, to the "little" things that you probably don't care about at present, like eating well and looking after your health and doing something to improve your home, your career or your financial prospects. Sure, right now none of these things have any meaning or importance to you. Do them anyway.

And if you are resolved to be the best friend you can be to Amy in the meantime, to go on seeing her despite the pain it brings you, then so be it. Most of that pain is pain you would feel in any case, whether you see her or not, and the inner turmoil of seeing your ex is probably not all that much worse than the inner turmoil of not seeing her.

Be who you are.

James

07-01-2002, 11:20 PM

Ah Tony, you're older than me and still much less cynical. I'm glad, keep it up.

I'm afraid I'm now more a "rip the bandaid off" type than the "slow removal" type. My experience has led me to believe that often I was doing something for what I thought were all the best reasons, but turned out to be what others expected of me or what I thought I should do in the situation. Neither was good for anyone in the long run.

Merc, Tony's certainly right in implying that the only person who can sort things out for you is you; all the words in the world aren't going to change that.

Mercutio

07-01-2002, 11:32 PM

Thank you for kind and thoughtful words. Particularly Tannin's last sentiment, and Dozer, a person whose name is not familiar to me.

I wish I knew what more I could say. Probably nothing. There has been precious little joy in my life these last few months, and I am glad for the distraction I've had here from time to time.

Mercutio

07-02-2002, 01:26 AM

I wish there was a word in English to describe someone whose relationship is not romantic nor a matter of heritage but nonetheless indicative of familial closeness.

Handruin

07-02-2002, 01:41 AM

I wish there was a word in English to describe someone whose relationship is not romantic nor a matter of heritage but nonetheless indicative of familial closeness.

Hartiverence

Har - ti - ver - ence

Someone whose relationship is not romantic nor a matter of heritage but nonetheless indicative of familial closeness.

Don't bother looking it up, it shouldn't exist. I made it just for you.

:bravo:

Handruin

07-02-2002, 01:42 AM

(I wasn't poking fun at you, I was hoping to be silly in a good way)

Cliptin

07-02-2002, 01:56 AM

I wish there was a word in English to describe someone whose relationship is not romantic nor a matter of heritage but nonetheless indicative of familial closeness.

Phileo, Agape and Eros are three greek words used to describe love.
I believe you are looking for Phileo.
Eros is the root of erotic, so I'm sure you can figure that one out. Agape is the type of love you would have for God. Phileo is the type of love you would have for fellow man. This is as close as it gets and it's not even english.

flagreen

07-02-2002, 04:09 AM

Speaking for myself, I certainly don't think Mercutio is a fool by any means. The problem is he's a typical guy. Many of us have been through the same thing more or less. And we've made our share of mistakes. Sometimes though, right or wrong, there is nothing else we can bring ourselves to do. Time will sort the situation out in it's own way. And when it does Mercutio will be a more compassionate, understanding and wiser man for having suffered through, and survived it. No pain... no gain.

Prof.Wizard

07-02-2002, 08:12 AM

Phileo, Agape and Eros are three greek words used to describe love.
I believe you are looking for Phileo.
Eros is the root of erotic, so I'm sure you can figure that one out. Agape is the type of love you would have for God. Phileo is the type of love you would have for fellow man. This is as close as it gets and it's not even english.
phileo= friendship
agape= love (real -> for God, your parents, your child)
eros= love (desire -> for your partner)

flagreen

07-02-2002, 08:21 AM

Hey you forgot "giro" didn't you? :)

Prof.Wizard

07-02-2002, 10:59 AM

Hey you forgot "giro" didn't you? :)
Well if I start talking about this tears will come to my face. There's only one gyros-restaurant in Rome and it's in the other part of the city... Some 20-30' (by car) just to get there... Then find to park... Then order your meal... Then unpark... Drive back... [yawn]

Moreover, I'll try to keep this thread to its right level... :P

Bartender

07-02-2002, 10:59 AM

Good point Constantine, Agape Love includes Brotherly Love.

Mercutio

07-02-2002, 11:57 AM

Cliptin

07-02-2002, 01:19 PM

I'm aware of the greek (and I'm not talking about PW or NRG) terms. None of them describes the right of things for me.

Agape is probably closest, but still not right.

At any rate, I *like* Handruin's word.

Agape is love that does not depend on the receiver only on the giver. It is not necessarily emotional in nature. It is most easily identified by the need to give
Traits of Agape from I Corinthians 13:
Agape endures.
Agape is kind.
Agape is not envious.
Agape is not self-serving.
Agape is not proud.
Agape does not behave unseemly.
Agape is not self-centered.
Agape is not easily provoked.
Agape does not rejoice in the bad.
It rejoices in the good.
And then the conclusion: Agape bears all things, believes
all things, hopes all things, and endures all things.

-----------------------------------
How about altruism (http://www.wordsmyth.net/cgi-bin/search.cgi?matchid=1177&matchtarget=1&returnFields=SYN,DEF,INF,SIC,SYC,EXA,CRF,PRO,SYL,D ER,SIM): unselfish concern for the well-being of others.

PS At least your distracted, right!

Mercutio

07-02-2002, 02:04 PM

Bill, I think I'm just about as far away from a typical guy as I could be on this one. I think I actually stunned the therapist I've been seeing when I explained it all to her.

Anyway, agape and eros and phileo are all words that describe love itself, not a way of describing a human relationship, and it for the relationship itself that there is no word.

flagreen

07-02-2002, 03:06 PM

Bill, I think I'm just about as far away from a typical guy as I could be on this one. I think I actually stunned the therapist I've been seeing when I explained it all to her.
LOL about the therapist but hey, the details may be different but I would imagine the feelings are close to the same otherwise she couldn't help you I would imagine. But what do I know, I've been divorced twice and given up on relationships. No expert here by any means. :)

Anyway, agape and eros and phileo are all words that describe love itself, not a way of describing a human relationship, and it for the relationship itself that there is no word.
I've had a few that defy description as well. :)

Vlad The Impaler

07-04-2002, 02:07 PM

I am so glad I found this thread. On Sunday I watched my 2 year old niece being pulled from a pond. We missed her in 20 seconds. For some god-knows-what reason, we could not bring her back. I am now downloading a song from The Grinch to play at her funeral. The agony is more than I can describe. Sorry to lay this one on anybody, but I cannot take the pain.

Prof.Wizard

07-04-2002, 02:56 PM

Vlad. My deepest condolences...

Vlad The Impaler

07-04-2002, 03:00 PM

I don't understand. Why???

Vlad The Impaler

07-04-2002, 03:00 PM

She was an innocent and happy little girl. We called her Kitty.

Vlad The Impaler

07-04-2002, 03:02 PM

Thanks, Prof.

Prof.Wizard

07-04-2002, 03:10 PM

Vlad, I wish I could find the right words to say to you now. Perhaps your case is one of the few in life when you really start asking "why?" on matters that really matter...

I've seen already many times human pain, and my luck and damnation is to continue to see for the rest of my professional life.
Of course, even cancer terminal patients don't come close to the desperation in the loss of a child. :(

I only hope you (and the couple of the parents) find the psychical strength to go on and bring soon another happiness to your lives...

Mercutio

07-04-2002, 05:27 PM

I'm sorry, Vlad. Loss is foremost in my mind right now, and it is a terrible thing.

Tannin

07-04-2002, 05:50 PM

Yes Vlad. A truly dreadful thing. My thoughts are with you.

Jake the Dog

07-04-2002, 06:02 PM

my thought too are with mercutio and vlad. you will never forget the loss but be mindful that the pain does subside. after a while you have only the best and most fond of memories which are yours to cherish forever.

Mercutio

07-04-2002, 09:00 PM

Jake, I don't want to live in the past. I would rather forget it all.

Jake the Dog

07-04-2002, 09:20 PM

fair enough, you are the best judge of what's good for you.

having fond memories though does not mean one is living in the past though. trying to shut them out is not that easily merc. of course at the moment whenever you think of your sitution it hurts but the beauty of fond memories is that when you think back to them you don't feel the pain that you as it was happening to you. it's then that you realise you have overcome your grief and this make you feel proud of yourself for having made it through. it just takes a little time.

Vlad The Impaler

07-04-2002, 10:11 PM

Thankyou for your kind words. It is funny how one day you can get up in thr morning and everything is OK. By bedtime your whole world has been destroyed, and you cannot even know why. My grief has tramusted into a deep and profound sadness. Although I am around people I feel barren and alone.

Hmm... Temazepan and vodka do funny things to the brain. I will sleep the dreamless sleep of sleeping pills and then face tomorrow. I have to read out a poem I have chosen to remember her by.

Cloud Song by A.A Milne

How sweet to be a cloud
Floating in the Blue!
Every little cloud
alwayssings aloud.

"How sweet be a Cloud
Floating in the Blue!"
It makes her very proud
To be a little cloud.

Cliptin

07-04-2002, 11:34 PM

:o :-? :cry:

What was she like? Do you have a picture?

Mercutio

07-05-2002, 12:36 AM

The Roadside Fire.

I will make you brooches and toys for your delight
Of bird-song at morning and star-shine at night,
I will make a palace fit for you and me
Of green days in forests, and blue days at sea.

I will make my kitchen, and you shall keep your room,
Where white flows the river and bright blows the broom;
And you shall wash your linen and keep your body white
In rainfall at morning and dewfall at night.

And this shall be for music when no one else is near,
The fine song for singing, the rare song to hear!
That only I remember, that only you admire,
Of the broad road that stretches and the roadside fire.

-- R. L. Stevenson.

Mercutio

07-05-2002, 01:19 AM

For Vlad:

Sleep, baby sleep, our cottage vale is deep,
the little lamb is on the green,
with snowy fleece so soft and clean,
Sleep, baby sleep.

Sleep, baby sleep, I would not would not weep,
The little lamb he never cries,
for bright and happy are his eyes,
Sleep, baby sleep,

Sleep, baby sleep,
near where the woodbines creep,
Be always like the lamb so mild,
a sweet and kind and gentle child,
Sleep, baby sleep.

Sleep, baby sleep,
Thy rest shall angels keep.
While on the grass the lamb shall feed,
and never suffer want or need,
Sleep, baby sleep.

-- Anon.

... and for myself

Come, you whose loves are dead,
And whiles I sing,
Weep and wring
Ev'ry hand, ev'ry head
Bind with cypress and sad yew,
Ribbons black and candles blue,
For him that was of men most true.

Come with heavy moaning,
And on his grave
Let him have
Sacrifice of sighs and groaning.
Let him have fair flow'rs enow,
White and purple, green and yellow,
For him that was of men most true.

- F. Beaumont

... and for both of us, with an obvious change in pronoun.

Heart, we will forget him
You and I, tonight.
You may forget the warmth he gave,
I will forget the light.

When you have done, pray tell me,
That I my thoughts may dim;
Haste! lest while you're lagging,
I may remember him!

- E. Dickinson.

Handruin

07-05-2002, 01:58 AM

I'm very sorry to hear the terrible news Vlad...my deepest sympathies to you. :(

Vlad The Impaler

07-05-2002, 04:10 AM

Mercutio:

You have touched me in a way that is deeper than you can ever imagine. Thankyou for showing me that not everything is mean and nasty. For you:

They say that 'time assuages,'--
Time never did assuage;
An actual suffering strengthens,
As sinews do, with age.

Time is a test of trouble,
But not a remedy.
If such it prove, it prove too
There was no malady.

by Emily Dickinson

Vlad The Impaler

07-05-2002, 04:30 AM

Cliptin:

She was just like me and my brother when we where her age. She had curly locks of hair, and a big smile. She frowned when she was thinking, and she loved toy windmills that blew in the breeze. She liked fairy stories and Winnie The Pooh. She loved to blow bubbles with soapy water. Everybody at the funeral is going to blow bubbles in the Church. Her favourite film was 'The Grinch' We have put the film and Winnie and Tigger in with her to look after her.

She loved our Cat; we used to call her smiler-cat. She hugged all of us before she had to go. I have found out from the Post-mortem that she did not drown. There was no water in her lungs. She was only in the water for about 10 seconds before we got her out. Her throat contracted to make sure that she did not swallow any water and her heart stopped. We could not have revived her if we had got her out in 1 second. She was gone before she hit the water; a fact that helps with the guilt a lot.

It was meant to be this way, with all of the people she loved around her at the same time. It is rare for all of us to be together, so if she had to go, that was the best time.

I was not, and still am not a religious person, but I know that somebody we know and love came for her to save her from something else. She has been to see all of us in different ways, to make sure that we are OK. I woke up and felt her lying on my chest giving me a huggle. I caught the scent of her newly washed hair, so I know she is being well looked after by my departed Grandparents.

All of this helps, but it does not answer the big question of why?

Mercutio

07-06-2002, 12:06 AM

I don't think "why" is a question anyone ultimately will know the answer to. Amy fought her fight and asked "why" every day until she finally decided to accept who she is. Now I ask "why" she stayed in my bed as long as she did (because she loves me, and she was too scared to see the truth.)

"Why?" is the universal question. Finding a "why" is a reason for being, a journey, a destination we will never reach.

I'm not a person who thinks everything happens for a reason, or that there's a cosmic balance somewhere, weighing karma or the heaviness of your heart. But life is the billion of lessons you learn over days and weeks and months. Life is experience and yes, memory and the present moment. Life is precious, something to embrace in the brief time we all have.

In a time such as yours, Vlad, all I can say is that you can be glad for all the time you got with your niece, and for all the little marks she made on your life.

I hope that's enough, because that's the only comfort, of my own words - not those of poets - that I can offer.

Bartender

07-06-2002, 01:25 AM

VLAD,

I’m sorry to hear about your loss. Unforeseen circumstances befall us all, and they are not always the easiest to deal with.

PS: I apologize for not addressing you by your real name, regrettably it fails my memory.

Vlad The Impaler

07-06-2002, 07:15 AM

Bartender,

You did not address me by my real name, because I have never used it either here or at SR. My real name is Ian.

Thankyou all for you knid words. I am slowly coming to terms. We had the funeral yesterday. We all blew bubbles and each took a flower.

Mercutio

07-06-2002, 09:15 AM

Amy told me yesterday that she was going out with her new friend, staying at least overnight, and that there were no plans to leave her friend's house at any time. I told her to "give her one for me." :|

True to word, it's 8:15AM, and she hasn't been home.

Vlad The Impaler

07-08-2002, 06:47 AM

On June 30th, 2002, she told me that none of it mattered any more.

Sunday, June 30th 2002 was a really poor day.

I think that you should make a break, for your own sanity. She is using your good-nature. I am sure it is not a malicious thing, but nonetheless she is still using you. It is not appropriate to do what she is doing and then come back to see you the next morning so soon after the events.

Just my 2 pennies worth....

Prof.Wizard

07-08-2002, 09:40 AM

"Just my 2 pennies worth...."

OT: can someone explain me what these means...? "Just my two cents" etc...?!

I haven't really understood when and why you use it. :-?

flagreen

07-08-2002, 09:51 AM

"Just my 2 pennies worth...."

OT: can someone explain me what these means...? "Just my two cents" etc...?!

I haven't really understood when and why you use it. :-?
It's just a way of saying "That's my small contribution" in the way of advice, my very humble opinion, or whatever. We use it to deflect criticism for having expressed the aforementioned.

Prof.Wizard

07-08-2002, 11:38 AM

I see.

Oh yes, it works on every thread I've seen it so far. Thanks flag. :)

Dozer

07-08-2002, 12:06 PM

I wanted to express my deepest sympathies, and also to share this with you all. This is a quote that I have framed in my office, and it gives me peace to read it:

"Dreams are never destroyed by circumstances. Dreams are born in the heart and mind, and only there can they ever die. Because while the difficult takes time,, the impossible just takes a little longer."

Never let circumstances kill your dreams.

alpha754293

07-08-2002, 12:28 PM

Merc: Good luck to you. *pats your back*. Been there...twice at the very least. Still remember BOTH accounts well.

Just got a new gf so...I'll have to see how far it goes for me. Not really expecting to last, but shhhhhhh.....she doesn't know that yet.

Collective therapy group support session. Suddenly being reminded of the song "RENT - Act I - #13 Life Support"

In any case, if you ever need to talk to someone, I'm online about 25 hours a day. ICQ 19728130.

Miraculously, throughout the latter part of my high school career, I was more a relationship psychologist for other people while remaining entirely single myself. Always had to remind them who they're talking to, but people just keep coming back to me. (not to toot my own horn or anything.)

If I could, I WOULD minor in psychology, and not clinical or criminal psych, but relationship psych...cuz I think that a lot more people can use the help or have that someone to talk to. I think that I'm only missing on the newer offerings by Dr. John Gray. Dr. Laura Schlissenger can go to kiss my.........for all I care, although the "10 stupid things that women do to mess up their lives" is actually quite interesting.

If you ever get a chance, hit the closest book store and pick it up. It's actually a very interesting book that some men also do SOME of the stuff that's listed in there. (P.S. '10 stupid things that men to do mess up their lives" is NOT a pre-requiste, but it would compliment it perfectly.)

just also read almost the entire thread, and realized that this started about two weeks ago. So, just catching up on stuff because I've just discovered this place. And yes...break ups of this nature are very difficult.

just...let me know.