Beyond the 4 ide channels......

[alt]

I'm getting a server case, and I'm installing all ide devices into the 6 bays.
What is the best method of adding devices to the bays beyond the normal 4 ide limit. Thanks for your expertise.
-alt

[Mercutio]

If you're doing "server class IDE", the magic word is 3Ware. A $225 3Ware 7410 4-channel (one drive per channel!), 64-bit PCI card will do what you need.

[Handruin]

I'm getting a server case, and I'm installing all ide devices into the 6 bays.
What is the best method of adding devices to the bays beyond the normal 4 ide limit. Thanks for your expertise.
-alt


Alt -

Could you please be more specific and define what you mean by best? Are you asking about HBA adaptors? If so, I would agree with Mercutio and the magic word IS 3Ware (http://www.3ware.com/products/escalade.asp)

[alt]

Alt -
Could you please be more specific and define what you mean by best? Are you asking about HBA adaptors? If so, I would agree with Mercutio.

Yes Handruin, I'm refering to HBA adaptors. THANKS for giving me your advise, instead of getting greif from the snobish little click that seems to have festered here.

[Cliptin]

If you can wait a little bit longer, you will be able to use the adaptec SATA card with 7 ports. I saw it somewhere but can't find it now.

3ware cards also come in 8 port versions.

[P5-133XL]

Yes Handruin, I'm refering to HBA adaptors. THANKS for giving me your advise, instead of getting greif from the snobish little click that seems to have festered here.


You won't get very far by insulting those that you wish help from. I suggest a little more honey and a little less vinegar.

[CougTek]

Without knowing at all how many hard drives / optical drives you'll have within your 6 IDE drives total, I would advise you to connect the optical drives to the onboard ATA controller of the south bridge and to connect your hard drives to the PCI ATA controller.

[alt]

If you can wait a little bit longer, you will be able to use the adaptec SATA card with 7 ports. I saw it somewhere but can't find it now.

3ware cards also come in 8 port versions.


Cliptin, I'm in no hurry. Whenever you can get the info, please post it here. Thanks much for your help.

[alt]

Without knowing at all how many hard drives / optical drives you'll have within your 6 IDE drives total, I would advise you to connect the optical drives to the onboard ATA controller of the south bridge and to connect your hard drives to the PCI ATA controller.


CougTek:
Here's what's in it. 3-removable 7200rpm ata100 hdd's, 2-cd burners, 1- zip drive. Would you still go with your previous advise? Thanks much for your help.

[CougTek]

I would put the two CD writers and the Zip drive on the south bridge and the hard drives on the HBA.

[Buck]

I would put the two CD writers and the Zip drive on the south bridge and the hard drives on the HBA.

I second Coug's suggestion.

I would not wait for SATA, as their release will not be very soon, and upon their release, there will be no performance benefit.

[alt]

I would put the two CD writers and the Zip drive on the south bridge and the hard drives on the HBA.

I second Coug's suggestion.

I would not wait for SATA, as their release will not be very soon, and upon their release, there will be no performance benefit.


Very good point, Buck, thanks to you and CougTek for the needed help.

[Cliptin]

I would put the two CD writers and the Zip drive on the south bridge and the hard drives on the HBA.

I second Coug's suggestion.

I would not wait for SATA, as their release will not be very soon, and upon their release, there will be no performance benefit.

If they will not be released very soon, how can you guarantee (deduced from your imperative statement) that there will be no performance benefit.
There should certainly be a performance/price benefit as 3ware cards are not cheap. Even considering the new technology price margin.

Bottom line, wait until you need the server and then buy the most suitable technology.

[Cliptin]

Without knowing at all how many hard drives / optical drives you'll have within your 6 IDE drives total, I would advise you to connect the optical drives to the onboard ATA controller of the south bridge and to connect your hard drives to the PCI ATA controller.


CougTek:
Here's what's in it. 3-removable 7200rpm ata100 hdd's, 2-cd burners, 1- zip drive. Would you still go with your previous advise? Thanks much for your help.

Also, I would put the burners on seperate channels and attach the zip to one or the other.

[Buck]

When Serial ATA is released, the drive and Host will both use Parallel ATA internally. The Parallel ATA data will be converted through a conversion chip and sent in packet form across the serial cable. This will then need to be converted back to Parallel ATA. Additionally, the drives will still use the same media to buffer bit rate as their Parallel brethren of the day. So, the performance benefits will not come until high media to buffer transfers can be accomplished.

[Platform]

... there will be no performance benefit.

Yes, there will be a real-world performance benefit with a SATA controller + SATA hard drive when they arrive (not mentioning all the physical benefits). SATA has protocol enhancements that bring I/O efficiency above what you presently get with existing "conventional" ATA.

By the way, don't expect any shipping SATA hard drives until the last quarter of 2002 at the earliest. There will likely be a few SATA PCI host bus adaptors a month or two before the SATA hard drives start shipping, which will likely -- at this point in time -- be a Seagate drive.

[Platform]

When Serial ATA is released, the drive and Host will both use Parallel ATA internally. The Parallel ATA data will be converted through a conversion chip and sent in packet form across the serial cable. This will then need to be converted back to Parallel ATA. Additionally, the drives will still use the same media to buffer bit rate as their Parallel brethren of the day. So, the performance benefits will not come until high media to buffer transfers can be accomplished.

The Seagate SATA drives will be native serial and will have no serial to parallel bridge circuit. Such data format conversions cause some performance degradation due to latency, more current draw and heat to dissipate, not to mention the component and manufacturing costs of the drive will be higher.

[Platform]

...Here's what's in it. 3-removable 7200rpm ata100 hdd's, 2-cd burners, 1- zip drive...

If this was 2003 -- maybe mid-2003 or late-2003 -- a deluxe Intel-based chipset SATA mobo would (supposedly) have 6-each SATA ports, meaning you would max-out your deluxe Intel-based chipset with the above number of components. If you had an "economy" SATA mobo, you would only have 4-each SATA ports.

[alt]

...Here's what's in it. 3-removable 7200rpm ata100 hdd's, 2-cd burners, 1- zip drive...

If this was 2003 -- maybe mid-2003 or late-2003 -- a deluxe Intel-based chipset SATA mobo would (supposedly) have 6-each SATA ports, meaning you would max-out your deluxe Intel-based chipset with the above number of components. If you had an "economy" SATA mobo, you would only have 4-each SATA ports.





Platform,
Do you think a onboard 2 ide controller mobo is the best solution for the above configuation, or should I just get a regular mobo and add a Promise controller?

[JKKJ]

Do you think a onboard 2 ide controller mobo is the best solution for the above configuation, or should I just get a regular mobo and add a Promise controller?

I've used an Asus A7V for a while now with 2 drives ATA100 controller and a CD and tape on one channel and a CDR on the other channel of the UDMA66 controller. Works fine for me, but the tape is a second backup system and I don't use it that much.

[Platform]

Platform,
Do you think a onboard 2 ide controller mobo is the best solution for the above configuation, or should I just get a regular mobo and add a Promise controller?

You're talking about a typical 2 IDE Channel mobo (i.e. -- pretty much a typical mobo), correct? The devices that you'll need to boot from should be what's connected to the mobo's channels, since the mobo's BIOS will be the most dependable for booting. The non-boot devices could be anywhere.

A Promise ATA133/TX2 PCI ATA controller goes for about US$45 or so. It has a 33/66MHz 32-bit PCI interface for new generation mobos with a fast PCI bus, a pair of ATA133 channels which have full ATAPI compatibility (important), and a BIOS that supports the recent 48-bit Logical Block Addressing (48-bit LBA) scheme -- which is also important if you want to use one of the new 160 GB (and larger) ATA drives. The Promise ATA100/TX2 goes for about US$35 and will do the job as well. Note that you can get Promise items sometimes as "white box" stock and pay about 20% ~ 30% less. These usually have NO manuals, just a card in a white box.

[alt]

Platform,
Do you think a onboard 2 ide controller mobo is the best solution for the above configuation, or should I just get a regular mobo and add a Promise controller?

You're talking about a typical 2 IDE Channel mobo (i.e. -- pretty much a typical mobo), correct?

Let me make sure were talking about the same thing. What I meant by-2 ide controller mobo- is a mobo with 2 onboard ide controllers,which would therefore allow up to 8 (4+4) devices. I thought it would be more stable than useing a regular mobo and adding a Promise controller to get the total 8 channels.What do you think?

[Sol]

Do you think a onboard 2 ide controller mobo is the best solution for the above configuation, or should I just get a regular mobo and add a Promise controller?

In reality this would be much the same thing, the second IDE controller would just be a promise controller, or simmilar tacked on to the PCI bus, usually for raid.

The only real difference would be price and resaleability/upgradability.
The onboard solution would likly be cheeper (unless you get a second hand ATA33 controller or simmilar for the zip drive and burners, this works great for me since my zip drive doesn't run on my main controller and one of my burners is ata33 anyway)
The downside of onboard is that you can never upgrade it without upgrading the whole board unless you just add another card and diasble it, kinda a waste.
On the upside since this stuff will probably cost less than $30 in the US, who cares?

[Cliptin]

Let me make sure were talking about the same thing. What I meant by-2 ide controller mobo- is a mobo with 2 onboard ide controllers,which would therefore allow up to 8 (4+4) devices. I thought it would be more stable than useing a regular mobo and adding a Promise controller to get the total 8 channels.What do you think?

One IDE controller controls 2 IDE devices: one master, one slave. Until recently motherboards came with 2 controllers on board. More recently, motherboards come with an additional RAID controller(s) which can be used in a non-RAID mode and increases the number of controllers.

[Splash]

Let me make sure were talking about the same thing. What I meant by-2 ide controller mobo- is a mobo with 2 onboard ide controllers,which would therefore allow up to 8 (4+4) devices. I thought it would be more stable than useing a regular mobo and adding a Promise controller to get the total 8 channels.What do you think?

Are there any mobos that have 4-each ATA / IDE connectors (channels) on the circuit board? There very well could be some, but I've not seen any yet. If there are, this would the perfect mobo for you, especially if there are no limitations on any of the channels.

[Platform]

...Until recently motherboards came with 2 controllers on board. More recently, motherboards come with an additional RAID controller(s) which can be used in a non-RAID mode and increases the number of controllers.

And the RAID processor uses either one or both of the IDE / ATA channels.

[Mercutio]

Abit makes a board like that. Of course, everything else under the sun is also integrated on it and it only has 3 PCI slots and no serial/parallel but I guess that's the price you pay.

[Buck]

Platform, the information you provide regarding Serial ATA is quite refreshing. The information that I presented is not without accuracy, however. It appears that this new technology is evolving with great competition between manufacturers. The outcome should be interesting as the T13 Committee adopts SATA 1.0 and manufacturers race for the marketing prize of “First-to-market”.