Mortgages

[Clocker]

To those of you with a mortgage, who do you use?

My 3.75% 3-year arm is about to adjust to 5.75% this May so I'm probably going to refinance into a 15-year fixed. GMAC usually gives me a great rate but I thought I'd check around to make sure I'm getting the best deal possible...

Thanks,
C

[Handruin]

Well, I'll tell you I'm not happy with Countrywide Home Loans, and I'll likely never use them again due to the amount they fucked up my mortgage and now likely put a ding in my credit...because their fault. So, I don't have a recommendation, but much like Merc dislikes S*ony, I now dislike Countrywide.

Basically, they applied a payment to the wrong loan. My payment made it for the first of the month, and they explicitly say on the bill that if 15 days past due, a fee is charged, but no big deal. Well, not 6-7 days past due (even though I paid on time in full), I get a phone call at work saying my loan is in default and they say I owe some number of dollars to them which made no sense. They started the process for being default and even sent me stuff certified in the mail (which I refused to even get and it got sent back).

After a day of arguing it was discovered they processed the payments wrong, and now 3 months later I see a 30 days past-payment mark on the credit bureau. I'm completely rip-shit at them when none of this went past the initial 15 days (not minding the fact the payment made it in full and on time to begin with). So now I have to fight with them to retract the mark in the credit and clear that with the credit bureau. I'm ready to beat some heads in.

[CougTek]

I'm ready to beat some heads in.
Just give names and addresses.

[Buck]

I've used Countrywide, BB&T and Wamu without any problems.

[Mercutio]

Handruin, you kind of got fucked on your mortgage anyway. Did you ever sell that place or have you moved back?

I am glad I do not own a house right now. Another few years and all the idiots who bought homes with whacked-out ARMs and interest only loans with be busting out of their mortgages (and hopefully taking some reckless lenders with them) and then I will consider buying in again.

[Will Rickards]

I have no idea if I got a good deal.
Because we bought a house we shouldn't have and put way too much money in it already.
I have countrywide 30 yr fixed and a heloc with greenpoint.
Neither of which I'll recommend. Not that there is anything wrong with either.
We know a mortgage broker that I can put you in contact with but she is like me in PA. If I were you I'd contact say three mortgage brokers and see what their best offer is.

[Fushigi]

WaMu has been rather easy to deal with so far. 30 year fixed @ 5.75 just wrapping year 4. Went through a broker who was very easy to work with; I'd recommend her to anyone in Chicagoland.

[timwhit]

I used a broker that I wouldn't recommend, if you are interested. He kind of looks like a rat.

[ddrueding]

I've been thinking of a house; the girl I'm with now is really awesome, and I'm thinking it will work out long-term. So on our walk today (prepping for backpacking: 5 miles with a 60lb pack) we went by the nearest house to our place that is for sale (2 blocks).

It has it's own website. (www.2061Webster.com) (http://www.acschwab.com/sales/2061webster.html)

So, I only need 5% down? That's $215k. Even without any interest at all and a 30-year mortgage that is $12k/mo.


Something tells me I won't be buying a house around here anytime soon.

[Mercutio]

That house does not look very special to me. It's missing like $3.8 million worth of special.
Unless it has a Hot Chicks Room (http://www.jibjab.com/jokebox/jokebox/jibjab/id/86327/jokeid/37799). But you'd think they would put something like that on its web site.

Also Merc's pedantic English tip for the day:

It's is the contracted form of "It is" or "It has."
Its is the possessive singular form.

[LOST6200]

Also Merc's pedantic English tip for the day:

It's is the contracted form of "It is" or "It has."
Its is the possessive singular form.

Thanks Merc, we we needed that once in wihle. Whaerecver is the garmmarpolizei lately?

[ddrueding]

Or the spelling polizei? ;)

[Handruin]

Handruin, you kind of got fucked on your mortgage anyway. Did you ever sell that place or have you moved back?

I am glad I do not own a house right now. Another few years and all the idiots who bought homes with whacked-out ARMs and interest only loans with be busting out of their mortgages (and hopefully taking some reckless lenders with them) and then I will consider buying in again.


No, the house is still not sold after almost 1.5 years and I'm still living here minimally. It has been very draining emotionally to say the least. Laura is working on buying it from me (I'm basically giving it to her for what we owe and probably some money to cover an issue with the lending just so I can get the hell out of dodge) and I stand to lose roughly $20K+ in total of my own money (due to the housing marked drop). That isn't loss of profit, that's an actually loss of money invested in a house I had originally planned to keep for a very long time until someone have a nice change of heart.

So I got fucked in a way I'd not have preferred. Sure, it's only money...but when I look back at working hard and long to save that money, I'm basically pissing 6 years of my time down the drain. Sure I have my health, I'm young, I have a job, things aren't really that bad, etc...just hard to swallow sometimes.

[Pradeep]

Currently with Wells Fargo at 5.75% fixed for 30 years.

Screw those ARMs and interest only shenanigans, I want to know that my monthly payment will not increase.

[timwhit]

Yeah, I have a 5 year ARM, I really should have just gone with a 30 year fixed. I will still be able to make the payment if it increases, but the added security of knowing exactly what my payment will be would be nice.

[Will Rickards]

It has it's own website. (www.2061Webster.com) (http://www.acschwab.com/sales/2061webster.html)

I took the virtual toor. Nice house but not worth more than 1.5 million around here I'd say.

[timwhit]

I've been thinking of a house; the girl I'm with now is really awesome, and I'm thinking it will work out long-term. So on our walk today (prepping for backpacking: 5 miles with a 60lb pack) we went by the nearest house to our place that is for sale (2 blocks).

It has it's own website. (www.2061Webster.com) (http://www.acschwab.com/sales/2061webster.html)

So, I only need 5% down? That's $215k. Even without any interest at all and a 30-year mortgage that is $12k/mo.


Something tells me I won't be buying a house around here anytime soon.

Maybe you could look for something that is a bit smaller. How about a two or three bedroom condo?

This (http://www.mlslistings.com/common/properties/propertyDetail.asp?open=0&page=1&mls_number=714401&type=property&name=) looks nice.

Or how about this (http://www.mlslistings.com/common/properties/propertyDetail.asp?open=0&page=1&mls_number=712884&type=property&name=)?

[ddrueding]

Maybe you could look for something that is a bit smaller. How about a two or three bedroom condo?

This is where things get complicated. In addition to us, we'll have her mother from Moscow and her handicapped 16-year old brother. And we are talking about (2) kids. And since her family is from far away, they tend to come and visit for 2 weeks+ at a stretch...

So granted, that house is very unrealistic, but I do need something larger. And I refuse to be part of a condo/complex; I had a bad experience about 7 years ago.

[Pradeep]

What are the taxes like on housing there? It must be a reasonable amount on an annual basis, which will have to be added on to the monthly payment as escrow.

Of course to me, paying 4.5 Million on a house with a single car garage and neighbours so close next door is unacceptable, I would rather have a house on a 100 acres with a pond/lake. Probably not going to happen in CA tho.

[Clocker]

You don't necessarily need to have an escrow account.

I pay all my taxes etc. on my own. I've never had escrow and don't want to have to deal with a 3rd party to handle all that stuff. Just too much of a PITA for me. Also, I don't like to let somebody else hold my money and gain interest on it when I could be getting the interest myself.

[Pradeep]

I'm a somewhat fan of escrow, if only because taxes are so out of control in NY that I could never save the money seperately. The town/school tax bills are sent to Wells Fargo, they pay the bill, and we get the paid receipt.

Also, you do get to keep the interest earned on an escrow account.

[Mercutio]

...I had originally planned to keep for a very long time until someone have a nice change of heart.

So I got fucked in a way I'd not have preferred.

I know all about "nice changes of heart" and hey, at least yours was straight. You got at least one kind of fucking I didn't. :(

Still, everything about that situation has just sucked. Buyers falling through. Renting AND paying a mortgage, having an uncertain living arrangement for over a year, taking a loss on the property...

Seems like you have all kinds of reasons to just be angry about everything, and no one would blame you in the slightest for not being able to deal with it.

[Handruin]

I won't buy another property with someone else's name on it again...that's for sure. I'm telling ya man, stick with the pr0n, woman aren't worth the emotional hassle.

I've dealt with it, I had to. That's life, nothing more I can do but press on, smile, say thanks and have a nice day. Though it's hard to stop caring so much about someone who's been a friend for so long in my life. I'm sure you've had (or still have) similar feelings despite what your situation has brought you.

[Stereodude]

To those of you with a mortgage, who do you use?

My 3.75% 3-year arm is about to adjust to 5.75% this May so I'm probably going to refinance into a 15-year fixed. GMAC usually gives me a great rate but I thought I'd check around to make sure I'm getting the best deal possible...

Thanks,
CA buddy at my old job has a broker he uses. Several other people at my last job refinanced their ARM's with her. I'm house hunting now and for a 30 year fixed with 20% down her rates are currently 5.875, 0 points, about $2k in closing costs. Not sure what a 15 year fixed refi would be though.

[Clocker]

Stereo-
You have PM.

[sechs]

I'm telling ya man, stick with the pr0n, woman aren't worth the emotional hassle.

Time to become gay.

[Stereodude]

Time to become gay.I'll let you two work that one out. Hopefully you guys keep it off the forum.

[Mercutio]

For what it's worth, being a gay as a guy is actually a pretty good deal.

There's lots of casual sex... and your "friend" actually has the same drive you do, so there's no argument over what to do with that empty half-hour you might've spent watching "Survivor" with the girlfriend you no longer want, you can order the fruitiest drink at the bar, assless chaps and leather pants can finally be included in your wardrobe, and all the straight girls throw themselves at you. Plus, unlike straight guys, someone will eventually take you aside and explain mysterious things like fashion, haircare and how to dance. And if pink is your color, that's a bonus too.

:D

This post sponsored by the guy who cuts my hair. Especially the "Not watching Survivor"-part.

[ddrueding]

For what it's worth, being a gay as a guy is actually a pretty good deal.

There's lots of casual sex... and your "friend" actually has the same drive you do, so there's no argument over what to do with that empty half-hour you might've spent watching "Survivor" with the girlfriend you no longer want, you can order the fruitiest drink at the bar, assless chaps and leather pants can finally be included in your wardrobe, and all the straight girls throw themselves at you. Plus, unlike straight guys, someone will eventually take you aside and explain mysterious things like fashion, haircare and how to dance. And if pink is your color, that's a bonus too.

:D

This post sponsored by the guy who cuts my hair. Especially the "Not watching Survivor"-part.

Fantastic post, got my first smile of the day ;)

[Handruin]

Time to become gay.

You can lead and show me how.

[LunarMist]

Is it April 1 already?

[Adcadet]

I did a human sexuality rotation. And boy is Merc right about being able to hook up if one wants to. Multiple times per night if you're in a bigger city. Easily. One of the big names in gay internet sex is at my university and I learned a ton from him.

[Mercutio]

1. I'd like to apologize to Clocker for the direction this thread has taken. Hopefully useful information was extracted prior to this becoming the SF Roundtable on Gayness.

1a. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

2. No one has to tell me about the magical powers gay guys have to get sex. I have seen these abilities at work, and they are STAGGERING to a straight guy who can't get laid. I'm talking 5 minutes on a gay chat site, or 15 minutes in the right cruise-y place (e.g. the bathroom at the local Borders).

2a. I have also seen the awesome power of gay men to attract straight women. I have even heard exceptionally unattractive gay men (fat, balding, older but, you know, well-dressed) complain about straight women hitting on them all the time when they go out. Talk about a problem I wish I had...

3. It has been pointed out to me that, the things that gay guys do with each other are pretty much right at the top of every straight guy's personal wish list. I'm not going in to detail but y'all know what I mean.

3a. The down sides? Stubble and ass-hair.

3b. I'd call that a high barrier to entry.

3c. 3b was not intended to be a pun.

[Adcadet]

So, back to mortgages...
I might make an offer on a house in the next few days in my (soon to be) new home of Rochester, MN. We've found a few houses that more or less fit our price range and have all the qualities we need or really want. As far as the actual mortgage...for once it's nice being a soon-to-be resident. Some national companies, and a few local banks, are not afraid to lend to people with >$150,000 in (student) debt (they don't use the traditional debt-to-income ratios), without PMI, and with zero down. Some do it as an 80/20, and sometimes the 20 part is at a ridiculous rate. The bank I'm likely to go with does it all as a single loan, and it looks like they run about 0.2% above the best I can find on BankRate.com. It looks like my total closing costs will be about 2%, which from what I can tell is about as low as once can go. I'll probably do a 7/1 ARM, as I'm likely to move on before the 7 years are up, or at least by the time it adjusts I will have gotten several small pay bumps if I'm doing a fellowship.

[Adcadet]

I'm talking 5 minutes on a gay chat site, or 15 minutes in the right cruise-y place (e.g. the bathroom at the local Borders).
Yup. Interesting epidemiology being done by a great guy: http://www.epi.umn.edu/people/people.asp?id=516

[Pradeep]

How much are houses in the other Rochester? Right now I wouldn't recommend an ARM to most, but a person in your profession doesn't really have to worry about being laid off.

[Adcadet]

How much are houses in the other Rochester? Right now I wouldn't recommend an ARM to most, but a person in your profession doesn't really have to worry about being laid off.
For our modest needs (just the two of us, and we'd like room for 1-2 small children) we can find homes as low as $130k. $140k-150k has most of the homes we're looking at, and it doesn't seem we would get much more by going over $155k or so. Many residents who have kids and a double income are in homes in the $150k-250k range.

A 7 year ARM sounds like a good idea to me since the chances of me being in the home beyond 7 years is minimal. 7 years would get me through my residency, chief year (if offered to me, may or may not do), and 3 years of fellowship (which is the length of almost every fellowship program except for cardiology at Mayo, which is 4 years). So after 7 years I would almost certainly be done or very close to being done with my training and ready to get a "real job" after that...or I could do another sub-sub-specialty fellowship, but at that point those are usually just 1-2 years long.

[Clocker]

The flattening/inversion of the yield curve and most of the rates I have checked lately shows there's not much difference between the rate you will get between a 30-year fixed and just about any ARM. Depending on how sure of your future income you are and any other things that may affect your financial situation, you may not want to risk going with an ARM. If for some reason you wife needs to stop working or something odd happens, you'll need to re-qualify for your new mortgage at the time you want to re-fi and that could be a problem. Back when I got my 3 year arm, I could get 3.75% which was significantly less than what the 30-year fixed would cost. Now, most ARMs are only about 1/4 point lower than a comparable fixed rate. Not worth it, IMO.

Of course, this is coming from a guy who has been in nothing but ARMs for about the past 9 years with two different houses. Two one year arms, a five year and now my current 3 year. Saved me a lot of interest expense over the years but I'm now looking at the fixed rates because the difference is very small....

Merc-
With respect to '3'. No way! WTF is with the anal infatuation. The thought of it makes me wanna puke. :-P

C

[Adcadet]

Well, this afternoon we think we've decided on one that we want to bid on. Tomorrow I'll be talking with the banker again, and see what the difference between the ARMs and 30 year fixed is. It would be nice to go with a fixed if it's really about the same, but the odds of me being in the house much longer than 7 years is minimal.

[Clocker]

You might want to grab a free annual credit report:

https://www.annualcreditreport.com/cra/index.jsp

Get one from one of the credit bureaus (a different one each time) about every 3-4 months and it won't cost you anything. You can get a free report from each bureau once every year.

C

[Adcadet]

Already got a credit report, which was accurate. Just got pre-approved for a mortgage today, and our credit scores are excellent (wife and I).

[Chewy509]

So, I only need 5% down? That's $215k. Even without any interest at all and a 30-year mortgage that is $12k/mo.

Is your math right?

215000 / 30yr / 12mth = ~$600 month

or with a 7.6% interest rate fixed 30yr = ~$1500 month

PS. 7.6% is roughly avg here in Australia at the moment, with median housing around $300K for a 3-4 bedroom house... Avg family income is around $70K - $80K. (both husband and wife working).

[ddrueding]

Chewy,

$215k is 5% of the price: $4,300,000. Yes, two commas :(

With a 6% 30yr: ~$24,000/mo



This is why I'm not happy.


Our postal code has the lowest average house price in the area: $1.45M. That is because it includes East Palo Alto; a serious crime center on the other side of the highway. My GF's car insurance went up 30% because she moved 4 blocks and changed zip codes. The cheapest decent homes in decent areas are in the $1.7M range (http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=19502419).


Average Price in Palo Alto: $1,262,961
In Santa Clara County: $747,698
In California: $514,572
IN USA: $254,310

Too bad I'm so in love with the area....

[Adcadet]

Damn. I've got a classmate heading out to Stanford...guess he'll be renting.

[ddrueding]

Damn. I've got a classmate heading out to Stanford...guess he'll be renting.

I have a really nice 1bd/1ba in a good complex for $1300/mo. including power, water, gas, and trash. The best deal in the area IMO.

[Mercutio]

In contrast, all my monthly expenses (gas, food, rent, insurance, electricity) + my expensive media-collecting habits - don't quite work out to $1000 a month...

[ddrueding]

Fuel for my car alone is ~$700/mo. Groceries for the two of us (not counting eating out 3-4 times a week) is ~$1000/mo. This is pretty comparable to San Francisco, except that the weather and people are nicer, and you have more space. A six-figure household income is practically mandatory for comfortable living.

[Chewy509]

Chewy,

$215k is 5% of the price: $4,300,000. Yes, two commas :(

With a 6% 30yr: ~$24,000/mo



This is why I'm not happy.


Our postal code has the lowest average house price in the area: $1.45M. That is because it includes East Palo Alto; a serious crime center on the other side of the highway. My GF's car insurance went up 30% because she moved 4 blocks and changed zip codes. The cheapest decent homes in decent areas are in the $1.7M range (http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=19502419).


Average Price in Palo Alto: $1,262,961
In Santa Clara County: $747,698
In California: $514,572
IN USA: $254,310

Too bad I'm so in love with the area....

Holy f**k! Sorry didn't realise housing was soooo expensive on your area. :crap:

[Clocker]

Fuel for my car alone is ~$700/mo. Groceries for the two of us (not counting eating out 3-4 times a week) is ~$1000/mo. This is pretty comparable to San Francisco, except that the weather and people are nicer, and you have more space. A six-figure household income is practically mandatory for comfortable living.

Holy crap. Your gas $ is my house payment. That seems like a good reason to move closer to work, as well as the fact that you must spend a good portion of your life just driving.

[sechs]

You can lead and show me how.

If you're a guy, I'm afraid that I can't help you.

[sechs]

Fuel for my car alone is ~$700/mo. Groceries for the two of us (not counting eating out 3-4 times a week) is ~$1000/mo. This is pretty comparable to San Francisco, except that the weather and people are nicer, and you have more space. A six-figure household income is practically mandatory for comfortable living.

I live comfortably, and, until January, my household income was only five figures.

Fuel for my car is $0, because it doesn't exist. We *might* spend $50 on transit a month (minus vacations, etc.). And that's not mentioning what I'm *not* spending on maintenance and insurance.

Groceries are about $500 a month; eating out probably falls within the rounding error.

You need to drive less and eat more sensibly. Then, you'll be able to afford that house.

[Stereodude]

Holy crap. Your gas $ is my house payment. That seems like a good reason to move closer to work, as well as the fact that you must spend a good portion of your life just driving.Odds are he can't. He lives in California and probably can't afford housing closer to his job. That's the beauty of living in California.

[Handruin]

If you're a guy, I'm afraid that I can't help you.

I'm sure you can, you know how. It's no different than how you act.

[Clocker]

I'm amazed at how much less a 15 year mortgage costs than a 30 year.

Based on a $140K loan, you pay almost $100K more in *interest* (total interest of ~$170K) with a 30 year than you do on a 15 year (total interest about $76K for the 15 year).

[Adcadet]

Yup, that's why I'm paying cash for my second house. I figure it will only take a little while after I finish training. Like maybe a decade.

What's that honey, you say you want that second house before our unborn children are in their mid-thirties?

Ok, nevermind.

[Pradeep]

I'm amazed at how much less a 15 year mortgage costs than a 30 year.

Based on a $140K loan, you pay almost $100K more in *interest* (total interest of ~$170K) with a 30 year than you do on a 15 year (total interest about $76K for the 15 year).

Yup, that's why it pays to put in as much money as you can into your mortgage payments as paydown on the principal. Just a couple of hundred more each payment drops the duration of the loan subtantially.

Here's a calculator to show the effect for your particular circumstances:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/mortgage-calculator.asp

[Clocker]

I like this one...
http://www.gmacmortgage.com/calculators.do?method=mortgageLoan&chosenLink=mortgageLoan

They have a bunch more tools here:
http://www.gmacmortgage.com/calculators.do?method=init

[timwhit]

I've been considering selling my car for awhile now. I haven't driven it since December. It will be paid off in about 15 months and I have no incentive to pay it off any sooner as the interest rate is .9%. Insurance is about $90/month.

I would probably drive it more, but parking is such a bitch where I live. If I wanted to buy a parking spot I am looking at $35k or ~$200/month to rent. I've been mulling it over for a couple months, but can't seem to make a decision one way or the other.

David:
I don't know how you spend $1000/month on groceries for 2 people. I know California is expensive, but I have my doubts that grocery prices are appreciably higher than in the city of Chicago, where I can spend $2 on a dozen eggs. Are you shopping at specialty grocery stores? Do you eat sushi for every meal?

At least what you pay for your apartment doesn't seem exorbitant. That is around what people pay in my neighborhood. A normal 1 bedroom is usually between $1000-1400.

[Pradeep]

You may want to look at Zipcar if there's one parked around where you live. Seems very affordable, given you only pay when you use it, insurance and gas included.

[ddrueding]

Groceries are specialty. She's Russian and likes Russian foods and I like high-quality meat. So between the small Russian shop and steaks at Whole Foods, the bill increases dramatically.

[timwhit]

You may want to look at Zipcar if there's one parked around where you live. Seems very affordable, given you only pay when you use it, insurance and gas included.

There are Zipcars and iGo cars within 2 blocks of me.

They just don't seem like a very good deal (http://www.zipcar.com/chicago/details-plans?plan_key=odp) if I would only use it to go out of town.

[Fushigi]

Ditch your car and rent a car when necessary. Not Zipcar necessarily; Avis and whatnot are fine and are available most places. Enterprise if nothing else as they do door-to-door pickups. Car payment + operating expenses + insurance + parking are probably way more expensive than paying $45-60 a day once or twice a month when you go someplace.

[Pradeep]

There are Zipcars and iGo cars within 2 blocks of me.

They just don't seem like a very good deal (http://www.zipcar.com/chicago/details-plans?plan_key=odp) if I would only use it to go out of town.

True, the Zipcar only makes sense if you are ducking out for a couple of hours, for an extended trip then a normal rental place is better.

[sechs]

Groceries are specialty. She's Russian and likes Russian foods and I like high-quality meat. So between the small Russian shop and steaks at Whole Foods, the bill increases dramatically.

Who needs a place to live when you can be fat and eat piroshkis all day!

[Clocker]

Well, as I expected, I ended up going with GMAC. They are just too easy to work with and have an office that's in my building less than a 2min walk away.

I was able to get 6.125&#37; on a 20 year fixed with <$700 in closing costs. Since I stayed with GMAC, already have 56% equity and my latest appraisal was only 3 years ago, no re-appraisal was required. So, that saved me a few hundred bucks as well.

I'll crank in an extra $167 per month in a money market account (GMAC Demand Notes, currently earning 6%) and have enough saved up to pay off the balance of the mortgage in 15 years. That should save me about $27K in interest expense.

To my pleasant suprise, both my wife and I have FICO scores >805. :-) I didn't know that good FICO scores let you get good rates on just about everything from car/home insurance, credit cards, & car payments as well as mortgages. I guess living well within your means can really payoff sometimes. A little luck helps too (We've been lucky to not have any major issues in our lives that would affect us financially.)

[Mercutio]

I am in no way smug that the New York Times says renting is a good idea right now. (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/11/realestate/11leonhardt.html?em&ex=1176436800&en=d42163eb18350f1f&ei=5087%0A)

[Clocker]

No doubt, in many areas, some people who bought houses 1-2 years ago have probably thrown away as much or more $ than renters do every month.

I feel lucky that we at least got to enjoy a couple years of appreciation before prices started to fall. The estimate from my Realtor is that my house is worth about the same or slightly more than what I paid for it 3 years ago. Oh well, in the end, at least I will own the place that I live in free & clear (except for taxes).

[Handruin]

Yup, I'm bending over now and spreading my ass cheeks.

[Mercutio]

Between that and this morning's exchange about eating dogs, I think I need the brain-bleach.

[Handruin]

Certainly. Just don't do the anus bleaching, I hear it burns. I was amazed to hear a dog tastes a bit like pork. That's not the other white meat I would have expected.

[sechs]

Dog tastes like pork? So does that mean that people taste like dogs?

[Adcadet]

Well, after many counter-offers, my wife and I have accepted a counter-offer on a home in Rochester. It's not perfect, but it has everything we think we need and many things that we want, and at a price we can afford.

[Pradeep]

Congrats! Is this your first house? Make sure you get an inspection, and you should be all set.

[Adcadet]

Yup, first house. The owners had it pre-inspected two days after was first looked at it (we saw it after it had been listed for 2 days IIRC). We have a friend of the family who is a home builder in that area, and asked him if we should get our own inspection, and he basically said no, and our agent has used that inspector before. I've got a copy of the inspection report, and it seems very comparable to others that I've seen, and he did point out some problems, most of which the owners agreed to fix.

[Clocker]

Congrats!

What did you end up doing for your mortgage?

[Adcadet]

A local bank has a "physician loan" program that most of the residents at Mayo use - zero down, they don't look at student loans to calculate your debt ratios (good, since my med school loans are larger than my mortgage!), reasonable closing costs (about 1.8&#37; of the loan amount), and no need for me to start my residency before the loan. They only offer 3/1, 5/1, and 7/1 ARMs, and the rates are competitive. My residency is 3 years long and I hope to stay down there for fellowship so I could be there for 3-8+ years. I'm leaning towards a 7/1 ARM as the price difference between the 5/1 and 7/1 is about $300/year and I like the safety of knowing that I've got a good rate for a long time. Depending on the rate today, I may lock in my rate - looks like 10 year bonds went down yesterday so we'll see what they did.

[mubs]

Congratulations, Adcadet!

[Adcadet]

Great. We're not done yet:
- the real estate agent slipped back in a contingency in the original counter-offer that she explained to as was a "courtesy" and didn't really impact anything. We only discovered this as we're about to sign the final purchase agreement

- my mortgage broker originally quoted me a 0.5% loan origination fee but for the past month was quoting me interest rates as if I had taken a 1% origination fee, and never told me. It was only when I got the official Good Faith Estimate did I see the 1% fee.

[ddrueding]

I hate sleezy people.

[Adcadet]

The sad part is, even with the full information about the rates and origination fee (basically a way to charge points as far as I can tell) they still have the best deal and I would have gone with them anyway. This bank is a private bank and they require you to open a (free) checking account with them and they're very upfront that they offer this loan because they want to become your personal private bank. But after this, I think we'll be sticking with our online bank and Wells Fargo for everything but that stupid free checking account which I'll never use.

[Mercutio]

If it makes you feel any better, Bank of America would not let me look at information about my car loan on their web site since I didn't have a checking/savings account there.

I got even by paying the car off 28 months early.

Anyway, when do we get to see pictures of the new place?

[Adcadet]

You'll get pictures as soon as I know it's mine. Right now, I don't know if I'll get the house or if I'll keep the agent. If I could I'd dump her immediately as I suspect she's been lying to us. But then again "never blame on maliciousness what can be blamed on stupidity," or something like that.

But, in case I do get it - how close can computers safely come to a hot tub?

[Mercutio]

Some of my clients are real estate agents and another group are appraisers. There's a LOT of collusion between your agent and the sellers, usually. It benefits everyone but the buyer.

[Adcadet]

I'd be fine with collusion if that's all there was. I sortof understand that no buyers agent is really a buyers agent. But when she misrepresents a counter to me multiple times and consistently, to the point of dismissing something that reads "this purchase agreement is contingent upon . . . " as not a contingency and just a courtesy, that's different. I'm at the point of thinking about how much it would cost to hire a real estate lawyer, break my contract with my current agent, and have the lawyer draw up the contract and whatnot. Maybe I'd need a broker as well. Not sure.

[Howell]

You do not need an agent at all. Unless you signed something, you can switch agents at any time. Generally another agent would not take you on out of professional courtesy. Even if you did sign something I would say she has already broken the contract with her behavior.

[Adcadet]

Tonight we asked to speak directly to the seller's agent to clarify the contract, something we do not think our agent is capable of, nor trustworthy to do. Shortly afterwards, we got an email from our agent explaining that she's been working very hard for us and offering to recommend a different agent if we wanted. I took this to mean that she is starting to understand that she screwed up and is scared. So it sounds like she'll be happy to let us out of our contract, something I wasn't too worried about given her behavior anyway, as Howell mentioned. We may appreciate that if this current deal fails to go through, as I'm pretty sure I don't want to deal with her any more than I have to. After this is all done and settled I'll consider filing complaints with the various groups.

But this still does not fix the fact that the sellers likely believe that we reached an agreement that includes a contingency which we never agreed to given the way our agent explained it to us (her email with their counter never used the term "contingent" nor "contingency") and she denied that it was a contingency multiple times. Like I said, this only became an issue once I went to sign the purchase agreement and saw that their agent had written in a contingency.

The seller's are tied up right now with some serious personal matters but I hope to hear by morning if they're willing to drop the contingency. I have no idea how my agent will present this to their agent, nor how their agent will present this to the sellers.

I hate real estate agents. I really do.

[ddrueding]

I hate real estate agents. I really do.

As do I. Computers/Automated systems should have replaced pure, no value-added middlemen long ago. Things like this (http://www.zillow.com/) should help.

[Pradeep]

What is the contingency for?

We had trouble with our first mortgage company. They were taking way too long to get the paperwork together. We ended up ditching them and switching to another company.

There's no reason to put up with sloppy work, especially when dealing with probably the most expensive thing you will ever buy, there's plenty of options out there.

[Buck]

You can always hire our resident persuader, Coug, to help move things in the right direction.

[Handruin]

I'd like to hire him now for my current situation.

[Adcadet]

The contingency gives them some time to find an acceptable home to purchase. Our understanding from their agent is that they are looking to buy a foreclosed home, and the bank has been skeptical of their finances and will hopefully agree to let them buy the house/get the mortgage once they sell their current home.

[Adcadet]

New thread on new house stuff, complete with links to pictures, in this thread: http://www.storageforum.net/forum/showthread.php?p=95022#post95022