I need a new TV

[Adcadet]

hey crew,
any tips on TV's? The wife and I desperately need a new one. Our entertainment center will fit a 27" TV. We have $400 budgeted, though we'd like to say well under. Is HDTV worth it? Flat panel?

[Handruin]

I don't know if it's possible to find an HD TV @ 27" for $400 or less...

I've had good luck with this TV so far. I've had it for 4 years now, but it's not HD.

http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/6494/6494019_ra.jpg
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1077628848235&skuId=6494019&type=product&cmp=++

[Adcadet]

is S-video and component video very important? I see the Sony has both in the back (doh!).

[Adcadet]

shoot. My "hole" in the entertainment center is 27" wide. The Sony is a hair over 30" wide.

[Handruin]

I use the s-video for my DVD player and component video for my x-box. I could tell a difference in the x-box between the component and RCA cables, but I'd be hard pressed to see a diference between s-video and component on my TV.

I won't say component video is that important since my TV isn't HD. I'd definitely say you should try to get at least a TV with s-video. If you do get a HD, then I'd recommend component connections. Keep in mind that decent component video cables aren't cheap.

[Santilli]

What he said.
Make sure the TV can handle all the stuff you need it to, if you want a home theatre system...
s

[jtr1962]

Is HDTV worth it? Flat panel?
I'd have to say yes. I saw side by side comparisons at Best Buy, and even standard flat screen TVs can't compare with HDTVs, and that's with a regular NTSC signal. Large screen regular TVs look blurry close up but HDTVs don't. They're almost like looking out your window. As a result, I plan to buy an HDTV (30" to 32") when the prices drop a bit more. As for flat screen, there is no improvement in picture quality over a CRT HDTV but it obviously takes less space. Unfortunately, I haven't seen any plasma TVs smaller than about 40". Any flat screens less than that are ludicrously expensive LCDs. Regardless of technology, I think it'll be a while before flat screen TVs become affordable for the average consumer (i.e. $400 or less). Too bad since the flat screens are real space savers. Mounting one on the ceiling over my bed would have been a perfect spot.

My 19" broke almost a year ago and I haven't replaced it yet. I borrowed my mom's 13", and now that my brother is here I have his 27" on loan until he leaves. By then the prices of the HDTVs I like will hopefully fall from the current $800 to $1200 down to something a lot more affordable. My advice if you decide HDTV is for you is to just deal with your old set for another six months to a year. The price is only going to come down dramatically as the manufacturing volume reaches "critical mass". I'm thinking they might have good closeout sales after the Christmas holidays.

[Pradeep]

I think Adcadet is talking about a flat screen CRT TV, and I would certainly pick one up over a traditional bulgy faced TV. I can't stand the curvature distortion. There's no way you can get a 27" LCD for close to $400. And the utility of HD in a 27" screen could be questionable. What would your HD content be from? A good progressive signal from a DVD player will look just great on a non-HD 27" screen.

Perhaps look at getting a bigger entertainment center?

[Adcadet]

Perhaps look at getting a bigger entertainment center?

That will require a bigger appartment (or in our case, an actual house, which we should have in a mere 6 years).

The signal will come from cable and a DVD player (which we have yet to purchase...any tips would be appreciated). We're also thinking about Tivo, though I'm not sure we can justify the extra $13/month or whatever, even though we do timeshift 90% of our TV watching (through VHS).

[Pradeep]

I believe Circuit City has a combo DVD player/Tivo currently for sale for $200 (regular $300). It comes with free Tivo Basic (i.e three days of listings, no season pass, but also no monthly sub). You can always pay and get the full Tivo sub later on if you need it. Prob the best way to go if you need both. Personally I like my Philips DV 642, it does PAL on NTSC and is region free with remote code. And does divx to boot.

[Mercutio]

There's a linear relationship between TV size and room size. My previous 32" display was a bit too small for my living room. I had to move everything around to make my DLP set anything other than a hulking monolith, though.

In a lot of small spaces (like my apartment, when I lived in one), 27" really is a perfect TV size. And the difference between HD and not, well, they're readily apparent almost without considering the size of the display.

In short, if 27" is what fits, get a 27" HD set and be glad you did it (if you can afford it). I see them for as little as $500, which isn't THAT much more than a quality 27" anyway.

[Santilli]

Check dot pitch sizes, too. Seems to me when I bought my Panasonic, it's either 27 or 29, that going to 32 inches was much less clear, due to a lot bigger dot pitch. Sort of like having a 19 inch monitor next to a 21 inch...

Something about combs, and digital in and out, and all that stuff...
:wink:

s

[Pradeep]

At any given distance a larger TV is going to look more pixellated than a smaller one. Of course with HD you can sit closer than with a normal SD.

Digital inputs to look for if you want a little future proofing are DVI with HDCP, or the newer HDMI (basically DVI and audio in one tiny connector). A lot of the cable co's are now switching on the HDCP switch, so people who have DVI and no HDCP will have to go back to using their analog component inputs.

[Adcadet]

Leah and I went out tonight to Best Buy (didn't have time to hit any other place as it was late. For TV's we found this 27" HDTV (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1077626911344&skuId=6423738&productCategoryId=cat03003&type=product) for $500 (a bit high). It will fit in our entertainment center, is HDTV (after the wife saw HDTV vs. regular it was hard to get her to consider a regular TV), and matches the picture frames in the room. I do not believe it has DVI with HDCP or HDMI. It does have S-video and component, though. How big a deal is this lack of DVI, HDCP, or HDMI?

We also found this Tivo/DVD player (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1060606072528&skuId=5698113&productCategoryId=cat03021&type=product) which I believe is what Pradeep suggested. It also comes with the basic lifetime subscription. Is this basic a major hassle or is it totally do-able for the budget-minded student? It looks like we'd pay at least $80 for a DVD player, and since we timeshift like crazy Tivo looks like a very nice thing. Once Leah saw it, she was pretty hooked. And the 40-hour Tivo's are almost $200 by themselves!

Luckily we have a little extra money in the budget to go well beyond the $400 we had budgeted. Do you guys think the above setup would serve us well for the next 3-7 years? We really don't want to feel compelled to upgrade while I'm still in school, and we're happy to pay more now to save big later.

[Adcadet]

Check dot pitch sizes, too. Seems to me when I bought my Panasonic, it's either 27 or 29, that going to 32 inches was much less clear, due to a lot bigger dot pitch. Sort of like having a 19 inch monitor next to a 21 inch...

Something about combs, and digital in and out, and all that stuff...
:wink:

s

since we tend to sit relatively close to the TV, I'm all about looking into dot pitch. I'm hoping I can just go HDTV and call it good enough.

[Adcadet]

anybody know about running a TV show from my Tivo to my PC? Does anybody know of a way of doing this that isn't described as "overly-complex"?

[Mercutio]

It works like a VCR, more or less, so anything with a TV in can display its picture.

[Adcadet]

It works like a VCR, more or less, so anything with a TV in can display its picture.

But can I get it to play back a show over ethernet so I can watch it on my computer in the study* room.

* the term "study" is used loosely over summer months.

[Mercutio]

No. You'd need some kind of video distribution system for that. And that's realy money.

Or possibly a replay TV.

Me? I rolled my own system for handling that stuff. I can get A/V stuff anywhere in the 5 block radius of my house. :D

[Pradeep]

A ReplayTV will stream to or from a PC with no probs. Tivo requires a lot of hacking to get that working.

I believe the combo DVD/Tivo has 80 hour recording time, making it a really good deal. I would love to be able to go to free 3 day listings, instead of the current $9.95 I pay per month. If you are home at least every 3 days then I don't see a need for 10-14 days of listings.

BTW I believe you get the full Tivo service "Tivo Plus" for the first 45 days free, as a teaser if you will.

I would consider DVI to be more important with a digital TV (i.e using DLP/LCD/LCOS tech). For a CRT tube that uses analog in the end, I don't see a real benefit to a digital connection. Component connections will be fine. One thing tho is that the upconverting DVD players (the ones that upconvert to 720p or 1080i) only send the upconvert signal over the DVI connection (and in many cases require HDCP). They won't send upconvert over the component output - for copyright protection purposes apparently.

So basically the lack of DVI depends on what you plan to hook up to it. The HD cable boxes etc still have component outputs, because the vast majority of the HD sets sold over the last few years don't have DVI. But the people with DVI and no HDCP are going to be screwed. So the moral of the story, either forget about DVI, or make sure that any DVI set also supports HDCP. For example the current series of Dell LCD TVs have DVI, but no HDCP support. Not that they advertise that mind you.

The only prob I can see with that Panny is that it only has one set of component inputs, if you are using that for your DVD/Tivo then you are going to have probs hooking up an HD source such as cable/DirecTV etc. Unless you get a receiver with component switching.

[Adcadet]

well, seeing as how we're not going to digital cable for a while I don't think we're going to need two component inputs. I hope. Is S-video useful for anything other than running PowerPoint off of?

[Mercutio]

Svideo should be your standard connection for everything that doesn't do component. It's vastly better (and the difference is immediately visible to everyone, unlike the difference between Component and SVideo) than composite.

[Adcadet]

oh oh. I forgot that component does not equal composit. Can someone clue me in quickly?

[Mercutio]

Composite carries all color and brightness information on the same wire.
SVideo splits chroma (color) and Luminence (brightness) into different wires.
Component splits the information into three entirely seperate cables, one each for Red, Green and Blue.

Contrary to popular belief, digital is not always better. One of the side effects of "digital" anything, is that all the data that's there is all the data that's there. In an analog system, there's always room for improvement (within the limitations of the media) as better and more efficient ways of resolving and carrying the information are developed.
"Digital" however, is generally means a highly inexpensive method of resolving and transporting data. That's good, because your recording and playback devices can be made very cheaply and have predictable quality. It's bad because the electronics can enforce undesireable copy protection, and can never at any point be improved or mined for additional quality.

HDMI is in part a system to implement copy protection on one's display, and digital video is video that isn't going to scale to future technology X.

[Clocker]

Adcadet-
If you still plan on 'time-shifting' your viewing with a VCR, I would not bother spending much on a TV..the VHS signal is going to suck anyway.

But, if use TIVO or DVDs a lot, I can see spending some extra $ on a nicer TV (maybe even with HD). JMO

C

[Adcadet]

Adcadet-
If you still plan on 'time-shifting' your viewing with a VCR, I would not bother spending much on a TV..the VHS signal is going to suck anyway.

But, if use TIVO or DVDs a lot, I can see spending some extra $ on a nicer TV (maybe even with HD). JMO

C

The current thinking is to throw the VCR in the closet and go HDTV + Tivo.

[Adcadet]

I'm pretty sure I'll go with the 27" Panasonic HDTV and Toshiba DVD/Tivo. The only question is where to get the TV (only Best Buy carries the DVD/Tivo). The choices are Circuit City, Best Buy, or Ultimate Electronics (formerly Audio King). All are equally close. Any suggestions as to who's service and warranty are better?

[Santilli]

Best Buy has pretty much been so so, and I've always liked Circuit City.

Great support on Palms. My Panasonic 27 has never been a problem, ever, and it's old...
s

[Santilli]

Check that. It's the 29, with all the home theatre connections on the back.

s

[Pradeep]

All this talk of TVs made me order one:

http://bensbargains.net/cgi-bin/ap.cgi?B00009XEG7

30" widescreen tube, should keep me going till I get a place big enough for a 55+ or rear projection set up.

[Pradeep]

Well I cancelled the 30" order lol. Pic would have been way to small.

I'm going with this one now:

http://www.circuitcity.com/IMAGE/product/hires/pan/PC.PAN.PT53X54.LT.28T.JPG

53", HDMI input.

http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&u=c&catoid=-8041&qp=0&oid=93816&m=0

[Mercutio]

Do you hate yourself so much as to want a Rear projection TV?

[Pradeep]

I refuse to pay insane pricing just so I can have a "slim" DLP or LCD based rear projector.

I may buy a DLP when

a) prices drop to levels comparable to CRT rear projection,
b) 1920*1080 progressive is possible (yea I know 7" CRT isn't capable either).

Right now for a large screen you can't beat the bang for buck of a CRT rear proj.

[flagreen]

Damn Pradeep how about seeing if you can get me job at the loading dock - I need a 53" HDTV too! :)

[Pradeep]

LOL, I no longer work at the loading dock. I'm in image processing now.

[flagreen]

LOL, I no longer work at the loading dock. I'm in image processing now.
In the "worst economy since the great depression", you who are not yet even a citizen (I assume), have managed to find two jobs in fairly short order? How can that be?

Seriously congratulations on the new job and that sweet TV you lucky bastard! :lol:

[Pradeep]

LOL, I no longer work at the loading dock. I'm in image processing now.
In the "worst economy since the great depression", you who are not yet even a citizen (I assume), have managed to find two jobs in fairly short order? How can that be?

Seriously congratulations on the new job and that sweet TV you lucky bastard! :lol:

Indeed I'm just a mere "resident alien". First job never called me for orientation, they were having issues doing a background check on someone who at that stage didn't have a SS number :)

Current job I took Trumps advice and didn't leave the interview without the job :D Tho I wouldn't say the economy is rocking here in Upstate NY, I applied for one job for data-processing at the Red Cross and they had over 300 applicant, gave interviews to 20. They said I was overqualified :roll: Anyway my current job is great, could be one I'm in for a long time to come, and that's rare these days.

[flagreen]

Glad to hear things have worked out well for you. Watching football on that TV should be awesome. Do you get cable? We have cable with cable company supplied TIVO and I'm spoiled after having used it for a few months now.

[Pradeep]

Sadly no cable down this road. hopefully we'll be moving to a place with cable soon. If not, I'll have to get some HD via satellite (but no HD locals then). Sadly the local CBS affiliate won't be moving to HD anytime soon, a digital SD signal is the best they offer, and they denied my waiver application, which I need so I can get CBS-HD off the Dish/DirecTv sats.

Right now content will be ReplayTV and progressive DVD. I may have to get an upsampling DVD player with HDMI now, to get some 1080i lovin going on. And this is going to be a great year for the Bills ;)

Had to go for the 47" as the 53" wasn't anywhere in stock, Monday delivery so I may have to call in a sickie :D

[mubs]

Indeed I'm just a mere "resident alien".
How long are your antennae and what color are they? :lol:

[i]

Indeed I'm just a mere "resident alien".
How long are your antennae and what color are they? :lol:

:lol:

[flagreen]

Monday delivery so I may have to call in a sickie :D

I think we need to poll on that question.

[Pradeep]

Well it turns out the wife has Monday off so I'll be able to go to work. She took the news of the imminent arrival pretty well. Her exact words were "if it's over 50" I'll kill you." :)

[skeet]

Just poked my nose in to have a look and want to clear up a mis-conception. S-video is component. You might have different plugs depending on what type of compnent signal your dealing with ( I can think of 9 different types off the top of my head) S-video has basically two signals, luminance (black and white or "Y" for the techies) and colour (or "C" for the less bright among us) These are the the two "components" that make up the video. The broadcast version is YUV and has two colour signals (basically Red and Blue - Green is calculated) which is the equivalent of RGB in the computer world. YUV gives a better percieved picture quality over RGB when transmitted which is why we differ from a computers component signal. The reason component is better than composite (NTSC or PAL or SECAM) is because the colour signal isn't shoe-horned into a predefined transmittable bandwith, bigger colour bandwith = better quality. Still, anything is better than NTSC. Just my humble opinion.

[skeet]

Just spotted Mercutio's intelligent reply. I have a question. The component that you speak of implies RGB. It's almost certainly YUV. Are we sure about RGB? Sony don't make any broadcast equipment with an RGB output so why would they put it on there tele's when Broadcasters globally are using YUV. And do we know if it's 4:1:1 or 4:2:2 (much more important). Just thought you might be able to clear it up. Personally, I play guitar rather than watch TV, I know what kind of w..kers make the stuff...

[Mercutio]

I *thought* component it was sync-on-green RGB: one cable of luminence, and green-blue and green-red chroma. I might be mistaken, though.

[CityK]

The reason component is better than composite (NTSC or PAL or SECAM) is because ...
Hi skeet, enjoyed the posts. Hope you drop by more often. Just thought that I would provide a clarification in that the "NTSC/PAL/SECAM" need not have been added to the above statement as they are, after all, only video standards and not the method of signal delivery. Although it is true that broadcast NTSC is transmitted in a composite signal, you can just as well have a NTSC source transmitted in a component signal - for example, from MPEG-2 encoded component video signals (DVDs, DTV etc..).

[CityK]

I *thought* component it was sync-on-green RGB: one cable of luminence, and green-blue and green-red chroma. I might be mistaken, though.

In comparison to S-video, think of component as taking the additonal step of seperating the colour difference signals that make up the chromiance portion of the video signal and conveying them seperately.

[Pradeep]

Just spotted Mercutio's intelligent reply. I have a question. The component that you speak of implies RGB. It's almost certainly YUV. Are we sure about RGB? Sony don't make any broadcast equipment with an RGB output so why would they put it on there tele's when Broadcasters globally are using YUV. And do we know if it's 4:1:1 or 4:2:2 (much more important). Just thought you might be able to clear it up. Personally, I play guitar rather than watch TV, I know what kind of w..kers make the stuff...

DVDs use 4:2:0. I Imagine HDTV uses more, but I don't know the exact number. Apparently the very high end DLP projectors used in digital cinema projectors use 4:4:4. Would be interesting to see.

[Adcadet]

Post Script - got the Panasonic 27" HDTV and the Toshiba Tivo and love it. Just pulling in a regular (non-HDTV) signal off the cable (since our reception in the appartment sucks and I'm too lazy to figure out an antenna to get the HDTV stations that broadcast over the air). Regular broadcast looks so much better on HDTV than a regular tube....especially a 20 year-old regular tube.

[Pradeep]

Does the Panasonic have a built-in HD tuner? If not you won't be able to receive HD signals without an external tuner.

PS Congrats :)

[Adcadet]

yes, the Panasonic has an internal HDTV tuner, though it doesn't get decent reception where it's at. The Tivo, however, is not HD so I can't record in HDTV. But for the price I decided the Toshiba DVD/Tivo unit was a steal ($200 for a DVD player and 80 hour Tivo with lifetime basic subscription).

[Pradeep]

Sounds good. Especially with HD Tivos costing around $1000 buckaroos.

[Fushigi]

My wife & I are starting to discuss getting a 2nd TV set. We're also very likely going to ditch cable in favor of satellite. Funny, but the reason for doing so is not the cost nor the channel listings. The reason for doing so is the decoder box absolutely sucks. The UI is slow and primitive. You can only view 1/2 hour on the screen at any time. It has - get this - popup ads. You can't block channels you don't subscribe to or just don't watch. The remote is marginally adequate but that's about it. Really bad user experience.

So we're looking at satellite. I used to have DirecTV and it was fine. Anyone have any opinions on Dish vs. DirecTV? Both offer the same basic channels we are after for the same (or similar) price point. Both offer some HD capability. Both offer DVR recievers. Both have free startup costs. Really, there doesn't seem to be much to differentiate. Which is more reliable? Which company has better long term viability?

And on the TV side, there are two basic options:
1. Buy a cheap stereo (but not HD) 27" tube and put in the bedroom. Leave the 35" tube in the family room. Probably spend under $350.
2. Move the 35" to the bedroom and buy an HD-capable set, at least 40" and widescreen, for the family room.

Now, before you say a 35" TV is too large for a bedroom, our master BR is 16'x22', not including the 2 walk-in closets or master bath. It's actually a hair larger than the family room.

While I'm a technology freak, the constant price reductions on HD-capable sets tells me that taking option (1) may be wiser and then just plan on buying the HD set in a couple of years when prices will likely be 30-40% cheaper.

OTOH, buying the HD set now lets me start watching some HD content now instead of having to wait. It'd probably also make the DVDs we watch look better.

As to HD options, as I mentioned we'd go 40" or larger. RPTV, LCD, or plasma. Not tube (too bulky) and not a projector/screen (no proper ceiling mount w/out redoing the ceiling fan and some other stuff). I would also want 768 lines minimum; 1080 preferred.

Budget hasn't been set, but I'd like to stay in the $1500-$3000 range. We could go higher but that really starts to push the WAF. Not to mention this will be a cash purchase and funds aren't exactly unlimited.

I'm fairly open on brands but I'm not willing to consider the cheap Chinese brands. Samsung, Hitachi, Panasonic, Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Pioneer would all be fine as would most other known names.

Opinions on which option to take? On brands to consider? Or technologies to buy/avoid? RPTVs are definitely cheaper but the entry ones are apparently 480p.

[Mercutio]

I just saw a Digital Cable box for the first time. The Comcast box distributed in Northwest Indiana doesn't even have an Svideo output, and the TOSLink out is apparently disabled (or maybe it was broken on the unit I was trying to work with).

WTF is that all about?

DirecTV allows for DirecTivo, and offers more HD options if you go that route. IIRC it costs a little more, than Dish.

On the other hand, Dish isn't the company suing every single person in the US who purchased smart-card reading equipment and it's the company that tried to do the right thing and not accept a cost increase Viacom ultimately forced on it (something that I certainly do respect).

I really like my Samsung DLP set. It's technically projection but IMO it's more than bright enough, and it's smaller than a CRT. I can move mine by myself. IIRC the little one is pushing the edge of your $3000 budget.

[blakerwry]

The DVR boxes time warner gives out are crappy too. The UI is extremely slow, but its interface is ok. No popups ;-) Even switching channels is very slow (think 2 seconds minimum, sometimes longer)

The box have coax digital out, but it is unreliable. During content with dolby digital it works great. But when you switch back(or just switch channels) to stereo television, sometimes the box forgets to switch back to PCM mode and instead stops outputting sound altogether... It does have Svideo and I think it even has component video out.

[blakerwry]

Oh, but the plain digital cable boxes are fine in my experience (atleast the pioneer one I had.. they now use scientific atlanta) has USB, Ethernet, Svideo, coax digital audio...

[Fushigi]

Mine does have S-Vid out. Unsure about TOSlink. Definitely no coaxial audio capability. It's a Motorola with an AT&T remote.

While not Tivo, Dish does have DVR receivers: http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/receivers/dvr/index.shtml The 522 I can get for free AR. Main limitation is you have to watch what you're recording. But that can be circumvented as the unit is a dual-decoder; just feed the 2nd decoder to the PIP input. But it's not HD. The 921 that does HD is also about a grand. :(

Looking at Samsung's site right now. Geez it's slow.

[Clocker]

My F-in-Law as a SA Explorer 3250 digital cable box for his HD cable TV. I believe it has S-Video and the three Component video outputs as well as coaxial digial composite audio output. Probably has the composite and analog video outputs too but I wasn't really looking to close.

My Explorer 3200 (non HD) box has S-video as well as Composite video out and coaxial digital audio out (which only works with the digital channels (300-520 or so)) and composite audio output. I use the digital audio to get the 5.1 sound for the channels that broadcast the 5.1 movies. I had to but a coaxial-to-optical convert to make it work with my HT system though (about $20).

C

[Pradeep]

One thing I have noticed is that whilst my 47" appeared to be way too big at delivery, over the weeks it has shrunk down in perceptible size. I would say that even the massive 65"ers would be Ok after a while. However SD is going to look like diarrhea on something that large.

DLP sets are nice and compact and have 720p capability, but check that you don't see rainbows before buying one. Great if you use one for gaming as burn-in is not a factor (as long as you can afford an occasional bulb).

All the current RP CRT based sets are 480p/1080i, most can take a 720p signal and convert it to 1080i. By the end of the year there will be 1080p DLP sets available, not cheap however. Other options for 1080p are LCOS/D-ILA etc.

For your money, if you can take the larger weight/depth, you just can't beat CRT rear projection in value. If you go for one of the higher end Mitsubishis they use 9" CRTs and have very high resolution capability. My 47" has 7" guns and it looks pretty damn good to me. Admittedly I have only seen the Sammy DLPs at CC display (not ideal conditions) but they seemed a bit pixelly/digital to my eyes. Especially any kind of panning/motion.

[Fushigi]

Merc, out of curiosity, how much do the replacement lamps cost for your DLP set?

I'm eyeing the HL-P5063W (http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=HLP5063WX%2fXAA) at the moment.

Saw it at Fry's just now. Nice picture, but there was definitely pixelation during some panning shots. Dunno if that was source-material or the set.

[Mercutio]

Circuit City told me $300. I'm assuming I'll be able to find them for less than that when I get around to needing one.

[Bookmage]

Thats about the right. I've seen the Samsung bulb for around 250$ with an average lamp life of 8000 hours. I've asked our TV Tech about those and if I remember right, we ( Circuit City) gets the bulbs for around 200$-300$. I'll have to double check with him tomorrow, but I know sometimes they use refurbished parts. Although I don't think we use refurbished bulbs...
Most parts come from the manufacturer, (I know Sony ones do) but they may ship refurbished parts.

Check out the Samsung DLP FAQ at AVS
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=256065

[Fushigi]

Thanks for the link, Bookmage. Sounds like waiting until later this year would be wise. By then the Samsung 1080 DLPs will be out. Not interested in the 61" model listed, but something in the 42-55 range would be fine. Maybe the budget will improve by then as well.

That still leaves the satellite question unanswered. Ideally I want an HD-capable, PVR-equipped decoder/receiver that has dual-tuner capability and can record HD as well as standard def material. And can record one source while watching another (hence the dual-tuner). And a multi-room capable dish.

While I'm at it I'd like it to be free. After rebate acceptable. 8)

[Pradeep]

That still leaves the satellite question unanswered. Ideally I want an HD-capable, PVR-equipped decoder/receiver that has dual-tuner capability and can record HD as well as standard def material. And can record one source while watching another (hence the dual-tuner). And a multi-room capable dish.


The HDTivos have two ATSC (OTA) tuners and two sat tuners. You can record two shows at once, in any combination, whilst watching a third already recorded show. Or watch one show live whilst recording another. For the dual tuner models I believe they run two lines of co-ax from the dish to the receiver.

The Dish 921 is still in very limited release AFAIK, I believe it only has a single OTA tuner, in addition to the dual sat tuners. Either way it's about a grand either option. Makes paying $5 bucks a month to the cable company for an HD DVR box quite attractive, even with the higher monthly cost of subscription. I'm guessing you will still have cable for your broadband?

Personally I'm looking at Dish simply because they look like the only providers that show cricket. But if it's not offered in HD I might as well get the cheaper dual tuner SD recorder.

[Fushigi]

I'm guessing you will still have cable for your broadband?Yes. Work re-imburses me for that so it stays. I will lose the TV-Internet bundle discount, but, well, work re-imburses me. :D

About a grand for the ideal DVR, huh? Ouch. Maybe I'll talk to Comcast afterall. If the UI on the HD cablebox is decent and not so totally crappy as the regular one I may just stay the course.

Thanks.

[Fushigi]

The subject had mostly died off for a while, but a recent visit to Radioshack brought it back to life. It appears Dish Network has an interesting offer (http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/system/index.shtml) for $799:
- 1 HD Satellite decoder that also accepts & decodes over-the-air HD broadcasts & includes an antenna.
- 1 34" or 40" HDTV monitor that does 1080i (made by Thomson).
- Free installation (after rebate).

That doesn't include an HD PVR, but that can be added for another $600 (25 hours with a 250GB disk). I'd probably pass on that at least to start.

How is this a bad deal? What am I missing?

[Mercutio]

Tube made by Thompson?

[Fushigi]

Yeah, I know. Visions of cheap RCA / Thomson / Philips garbage has danced through my head. Online reviews of the combo seem to be in short supply. But as a 'starter set' for $800, even if it doesn't last that long or the pic isn't as good as the brand new Mitsu DLPs (very, very nice. Better than Sony, Samsung, etc.), it should still be a nice improvement over the SD tube we watch now.

[Pradeep]

I believe reviews of the combo pack in avsforum came out to be good, especially in the value for money side.

[Fushigi]

Sorry; should be "Visions ... have" instead of "has". At least I caught it before the grammar police.
I believe reviews of the combo pack in avsforum came out to be good, especially in the value for money side.That was my general impression as well. When discussing the whole 'let's get another TV' thing with my wife, it has been along the lines of two choices: Cheap SDTV (maybe $400-500) or very nice HDTV ($4K+). This offer seems to be a good compromise. Get what seems to be an OK HDTV for just a small premium over the SDTV option. If it proves to only be an OK set, it'll still probably do for 2-3 years, allowing prices on the better sets to fall further.

The thing that bothers me a little still is the SD picture is supposedly not that good. But others have chimed in to say it's not the TV but the Dish decoder at fault. I suppose it should matter, unless I can't get HD locals over-the-air. Also a little wary about that since most of their antennae are 30+ miles away. How far does an over-the-air HD signal carry?

This set would also let me upgrade DVD output from S-Video to Component. My current DVD player doesn't offer DVI or HDMI as it's from around 1999. Amazingly enough, it appears Pioneer still sells the same model today (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_15020673_36104_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ ProductDetailComponent), although it looks like they've cheapened the case by removing the rosewood side panels.

[Buck]

I think you're safe from the Grammar Police, they seem to have fallen asleep.

[Pradeep]

I suppose it should matter, unless I can't get HD locals over-the-air. Also a little wary about that since most of their antennae are 30+ miles away. How far does an over-the-air HD signal carry?

This set would also let me upgrade DVD output from S-Video to Component. My current DVD player doesn't offer DVI or HDMI as it's from around 1999. Amazingly enough, it appears Pioneer still sells the same model today (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_15020673_36104_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ ProductDetailComponent), although it looks like they've cheapened the case by removing the rosewood side panels.

I can sometimes get Buffalo HD which is over 50 miles away. It all depends on what kind of hills/mountains are in the way I guess, and your antenna.

Rosewood side panels? Sounds like an Elite model. Have you got many LDs?

[Fushigi]

I can sometimes get Buffalo HD which is over 50 miles away. It all depends on what kind of hills/mountains are in the way I guess, and your antenna.

Rosewood side panels? Sounds like an Elite model. Have you got many LDs?Chicagoland is fairly flat & some stations have their antennae on the top of skyscrapers anyway (CBS is on the Sears Tower). So maybe OTA HD isn't too far fetched.

Yes, the DVL-919 is an Elite. I still have around 100 movies + 125 or so anime LDs. While I've converted a few to DVD, I keep the capability for a few reasons:
- Imports that can't really be replaced.
- Some, like my Star Wars LD box, cost a lot of money and contain the non-screwed up version.
- The limited edition Amadeus box set .. mine is #7 of 10,000 (my retailer was the first to get shipments).
- Some things are available on DVD for a decent price, like the BBC show The Prisoner, but I've little actual reason to re-buy them.
- Resale on used LDs stinks.

I also still have an Onkyo turntable (almost 20 years old) and around a hundred LPs. :) One reason I went with my Denon AVR-5700 was it still had a phono connector while many other amps were dropping them.

[i]

Anyone run into one of these (http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=TXP3075WHX%2fXAA) (at $999 or otherwise)?

[Fushigi]

Anyone run into one of these (http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?eUser=&prod_id=TXP3075WHX%2fXAA) (at $999 or otherwise)?Can't say I have but then I've been mostly ignoring tube sets this time around. Prior to the Dish offer I wasn't considering anything smaller than 50".

[Mercutio]

Circuit City carries them. They look really nice.

[Jake the Dog]

sorry to drag this duscussion back to signal format but I thought I might be able to contribute.

merc and skeet are right when they say s-video and RGsB are component video but techincally any seprated video signal is "component video". typically though non-professionals use the term component to describe YIQ/YUV. the various RGB flavours are typically refferd to as "RGB component". S-Video is usally termed S-Video or incorrectly, S-VHS.

skeet, I'd be interested to hear more on why you say "YUV gives a better percieved picture quality over RGB when transmitted." RGB requires more bandwith than component and can suffer from poor cabling etc, but when transmitted appropriately, RGB is the ultimately best.

[Pradeep]

Whilst this thread is resurrected I might as well update it too. Finally moved to the new digs and got digital cable. Got the SA 8300HD DVR from TWC, it can record two shows in HD whislt showing an already recorded show. HDMI and component outputs, and co-ax digital audio out. Has an external SATA port for adding an additional HDD.

HD looks absolutely unbelievable. It's hard to go back to watching SD. I'm in the process of putting up an antenna in the attic to get Buffalo or Syracuse CBS/FOX, currently local CBS affiliate only broadcasts in SD digital. And FOX HD channel isn't carried by TWC (they are fighting over money).

[Jake the Dog]

now that's a DVR :thumbleft:

we have very little HD content down here. like 3 hours per day on free to air, none on cable and only a few HD titles in stores. in way it's a good thing as I can't allow myself the cost of all the HD gear I would want to have! :roll:

[Pradeep]

What kind of shows are being shown in HD? Any sports? The one thing I truly love about the USA is the low prices of their large screen TVs :)

[SteveC]

Whilst this thread is resurrected I might as well update it too. Finally moved to the new digs and got digital cable. Got the SA 8300HD DVR from TWC, it can record two shows in HD whislt showing an already recorded show. HDMI and component outputs, and co-ax digital audio out. Has an external SATA port for adding an additional HDD.

Pradeep, how is the picture quality on the analog channels, and can you easily pad recordings (ABC is running "Lost" at 61 minutes long) on the SA8300HD? Cablevision is going to have them available soon, and there's enough HD programming now that the two tuners would be useful.

[Pradeep]

Analog recording seems sub-par, compared to the SA8000. Keep in mind you can set it to upconvert everything to 1080i/720p, or set it to pass-thru whatever the programs' native resolution is. I may just be spoilt with HD clarity tho.

If you've ever experienced a Tivo/ReplayTV, it's definitely not one those. No padding capability I can find. Only plus point is if you select to record three things at the same time it will ask you which program not to record.

[Jake the Dog]

What kind of shows are being shown in HD? Any sports? The one thing I truly love about the USA is the low prices of their large screen TVs :)

very little unfortunately. I'm seriously hoping that ATx-10 will show the Melb GP in HD but as of yet, they have still to decide. the HD content we have is nothing special being most news programmes, some of the more popular TV dramas and tyhe rest an odd assortment. at this stage ABx-2 is pretty much the only station that is to commited getting as much WS and/or HD digital out as it can.

HD capable TV devices are still very expensive down here but just recently, Sony introduced a sub-$3k HD 76cm HD CRT and Pana & NEC introcuced their $3.1-3.2k eqivalents. you can even get an "Omni" 76cm HD on eBay for $1099. with these prices making HD affordable to just about anyone, we should start seeing HD content increase dramatically.

how much HD do you get in the States?

[Pradeep]

I get the following channels via cable:

INHD1 and INHD2: These show only HD content, it's produced by a consortium of cable companies I believe. About 100 new hours per month.

HBO-HD and SHO-HD, high definition versions of HBO and Showtime. Some older movies seem to be upsampled, but native transfers look stunning.

WB-HD: Shows such as Smallville etc in HD

DiscoveryHD, great looking docos in HD

TNT-HD: Movies in HD

ESPN-HD, HD sports content.

HD-Net and HD-Net Movies, produces a lot of it's own HD content, as well as some older stuff. Lots of bikini action etc. HD-Net movies seems to be mostly older movies.

NBC, ABC and PBS in HD (PBS is sorta like the ABC in Aus), NBC and ABC are major free to air networks. CBS and FOX do transmit in HD, but currently the local cable nework isn't carrying the HD signals.

PBS, ABC, NBC, CBS and FOX can all be received with an OTA receiver if you are within range.

[Jake the Dog]

with that much HD content available, it's obviously it well worth being able to access it.

DTV has been slow on the uptake here, partly because of the cost of equipment and partly due to a lack of consumer education. excluding the ABC, the free-to-air bradcasters have been doing a good job of keeping DTV to a minimum with the skewed idea of protecting their revenues. they apparently beleive that DTV is a value-add service that primarily benefits viewers and hardly their pockets. typical of the Howard government, they are siding with corporate media without considering all the facts or listening to consumer groups are have not pushed broadcasters to increase their DTV WS and/or HD offerings. to make matters worse DTV doesn't have a reputation of quality it deserves because our only digital cable provider, Foxtel, broadcasts in SD only and most people are viewing this via composite. the decoder Foxtel supply has CV and RGB outputs only. many people aren't aware of the superior quality of component video and of those that are, the vast majority have component YUV TV's which are not RGB capable...

[Pradeep]

Do the HD TVs have SCART inputs? Perhaps an RGB->SCART cable would do the trick. Tho I realise a lot of SCART inputs don't have the RGB connectors hooked up.

It seems like 7 is calling 576p high definition? And 9 is going with 1080i? I don't think it will take much comparison by people watching the demo loops to realise which is truly HD.

[SteveC]

Analog recording seems sub-par, compared to the SA8000. Keep in mind you can set it to upconvert everything to 1080i/720p, or set it to pass-thru whatever the programs' native resolution is. I may just be spoilt with HD clarity tho.

If you've ever experienced a Tivo/ReplayTV, it's definitely not one those. No padding capability I can find. Only plus point is if you select to record three things at the same time it will ask you which program not to record.

Thanks, Pradeep. I've never used a Tivo, so I'm not going to be comparing it to that. It's a little disappointing that it can't pad recordings, but it's not really a big deal right now. I just fear that the networks are going to be messing with the length of shows more and more. One other thing, how is the speed of changing channels, and the guide? I have the SA4200HD now, and it can take a couple of seconds for the channel to change or the guide to come up.

[Pradeep]

Well tonight Lost is currectly listed on the 8300 guide as a 61 min show, so I hopefully will get to see the end of it unlike last week.

Channel change/guide speed is good, it's got a faster processor than the 8000HD.

[Jake the Dog]

Do the HD TVs have SCART inputs? Perhaps an RGB->SCART cable would do the trick. Tho I realise a lot of SCART inputs don't have the RGB connectors hooked up.

It seems like 7 is calling 576p high definition? And 9 is going with 1080i? I don't think it will take much comparison by people watching the demo loops to realise which is truly HD.

their TV's may have SCART sockets but they'll still mostly only support component YUV. SCART is purely just a connector type only and can various video signals including composite, S-Video and YUV and RGB as well as audio too. a fully wired 21pin SCART cable can carry all these but the TV has to be able to accept it!

our broadcast authority calls 576p "Enhanced Digital" (ED) which it is hardly is and 7 is capatiliasing on it's official non-SD designation and calling it HD. pretty bloody lame...