I hate all of you Americans - Newegg's specials

[CougTek]

Western Digital WD800JB @ 89$ shipped (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=22-144-122&DEPA=1), but NOT AVAILABLE FOR QUÉBEC RESIDENTS.
EPoX EP-8RDA+ @ 94$ shipped (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=13-123-191&DEPA=1), but NOT AVAILABLE FOR QUÉBEC RESIDENTS.

The best prices I can get the WD800JB is 151$CDN (104U$) and 8RDA+ is 179$ plus non-free shipping (123U$ + shipping).

I HATE YOU!


But then I think about Mercutio and his overpriced 56K connection and smile :)

[Mercutio]

That's an overpriced 28.8 connection, O-Canadian-in-denial.

Didja see how I worked that? Aren't I clever?

[CougTek]

No, I didn't.

I remember a thread where you complained about how much misery your lame telephonic connection gave you, but I wasn't sadistic enough to continue reading the whole of it. I felt so bad for you, it was aweful.

Just give me a link to it, I'll read the end that I skipped.

[Mercutio]

Here (http://www.storageforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=31340#31340)
and here (http://www.storageforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=31388#31388).

[Fushigi]

Western Digital WD800JB @ 89$ shipped (http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduct.asp?description=22-144-122&DEPA=1), but NOT AVAILABLE FOR QUÉBEC RESIDENTS.What about Circuit City? WD 160GB/8MB for $140 after rebates. (http://www.circuitcity.com/frame1.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0865355600.1050962130@ @@@&BV_EngineID=cccgadcidmheiegcfngcfkmdffhdffk.0&upper=head.jsp&lower=frame2.jsp&inleftcat=Electronics&right=detail.jsp&left=leftdept.jsp&oid=67646&carriage=befree&sourceid=00389236887235665969&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&affiliateid=38923688&goTo=detail)

[Pradeep]

The 180GB WD JB series at $186 (Newegg) is looking like good value for money.

[Pradeep]

Oops that should read 200GB BB for $210 or $217 for the JB.

[Mercutio]

1. Rebates suck
2. WD is on my shit list again. Is it THAT hard to make a reliable 5400rpm drive??? I went *out of my way* to buy those things...
3. Samsung 120GB drives, $94 shipped, every day, from Econopc.com. They've been hovering under $100 for a couple of weeks now. Wanna how I can get to 800GB on a single machine (OK, some of the drives are DM9s, but mostly it's Samsungs)?
I could buy two of those and still have enough money for 256MB of PC2700, versus a 2000JB.

[Pradeep]

Having problems with your 1200AB's?

[Mercutio]

*AB drives are like (and, if you could see underneath this text, there would be at least 20 minutes of really loud, profane utterances in combinations I assure you that you haven't heard before)-ing time bombs. 15 months then *poof*. Head crash/20% bad sectors/motor failure. Given the choice between a WD drive and bunch of punch cards for my next DVD rip, I think I'd take the punch cards. Seriously, I think I've coughed up better hard drives. My working theory is that WD600ABs, in RAID1, store data by counting head crashes as "1s". Only two more drives and I can make an ASCII Line Feed!
I want the head of the engineer responsible on a sharp stick, so I can hang it from my balcony for other drive engineers to see as a warning of the consequences of my displeasure. I can hurl the rest of my collection of dead *ABs at offending WD employees like a happy monkey with a pile of steaming-hot feces.
WD drives suck ass for storing data. They make marvelous portable shaving mirrors and pretty good candy dishes.

On second thought, words really can't express the depths of my bile. Only bile can do that. Like the kind my cat just sprayed over the 6-month old WD600BB (WD says it's out of warranty 'cause I got it as a replacement for, guess what, a dead 600AB) I'm using to keep a pile of dead Abit motherboards from floating away.

[mubs]

Gee, Merc, I feel your pain. You should actually write a nice letter to WD's CEO, introducing yourself and your credentials (lest he think you're a noobie nut-case), and then cut-n-paste this post of yours into the letter. I mean, that, really. How else will they know/believe what's wrong with their drives? The slaves and minions at the bottom surely will not have the courage to tell. And if they do, their middle-damager bosses will filter it out.

That said, you can be pretty eloquent at venting, you know!

And punch cards. What do you know about them? You're too young to even know what they are. Me, I worked on those suckers a long, long time ago.....

Signed,
Ole fart

[jtr1962]

CougTek, I have three more reasons for you to hate us Americans:

1. 128MB SmartMedia card for $23 at NewEgg(purchased for a digital camera)

2. 80GB, 8 MB cache DM9 purchased for $69.99 after rebates($99.99-30 mail-in rebate) at CompUSA. BTW, I went 5 days after the sale started, and I got the very last one in the store(sitting in a display case behind a flyer).

3. UPS/Surge protecter for $19.99($29.99 - $10 mail-in rebate), also at CompUSA.

I walked 5 miles home carrying #2 and #3 because I am too cheap to spring for $1.50 subway fare(also wanted to get a little workout :wink: ).

[jtr1962]

2. WD is on my shit list again. Is it THAT hard to make a reliable 5400rpm drive??? I went *out of my way* to buy those things...


They've been on my shit list since that 6.4 GB fiasco. Despite their much improved reliability record, it takes a really long time to win back my trust after something like that. IBM's also on my shit list for obvious reasons. That leaves Maxtor, Seagate, and Samsung. No experience personally with the latter two outside of a few really old Seagates bought on eBay. For now I'm happy with Maxtor. The places where I buy drives locally(Staples, CompUSA, Circuit City) generally seem to have mainly Maxtor and WD. The choice is a no brainer for me. Subjectively, WD drives have always had an annoying whine even when compared to other drives of the same era. They might register the same dB-wise, but I'm overly sensitive to very high frequencies just like my cats.

[Handruin]

Are you refering to the the WD 3 platter issue for the caviar 6.4GB drive where the 2 platter drive didn't have the same issue? I lucked out, I had the 2 platter, but the drive is dead now anyways, so I guess it didn't matter. (now sitting on display in pieces on my desk at work)

[Mercutio]

Gee, Merc, I feel your pain. You should actually write a nice letter to WD's CEO, introducing yourself and your credentials (lest he think you're a noobie nut-case), and then cut-n-paste this post of yours into the letter.

That said, you can be pretty eloquent at venting, you know!

And punch cards. What do you know about them? You're too young to even know what they are. Me, I worked on those suckers a long, long time ago.....


I think I scared Mickey away.

Don't worry Mickey, you're family. If WD's ongoing suckiness is your fault, I'll only take some fingers. And a thumb. I promise. And maybe a kidney. But that's it.

Ranting is best when it's done from the heart.

Somehow I doubt that WD's senior management gives a rat's ass what I think. *Mickey* probably doesn't give a rat's ass about what I think.

Forgive me, I'm still struggling with: "It was made in November of 2002, but it's not under warranty."

Punch cards? When I was little I helped my father sort through many thousands of them when he moved out of his office at the University of Illinois. I think he still has a whole bunch of them. ... and I've probably come a lot closer to punched cards than most people my age.

[Fushigi]

Punch cards? When I was little I helped my father sort through many thousands of them when he moved out of his office at the University of Illinois. I think he still has a whole bunch of them. ... and I've probably come a lot closer to punched cards than most people my age.I had a summer job during college at Fox Photo. The photo printers (Kodak printers that printed pictures from negatives) were programmed by paper tape. My brother, who worked there full time, might still have some.

- Fushigi

[Mickey]

Wow. Decide not to visit for a couple of days and look at what happens. ;) I usually don't drop by in this forum as anything I might have to sell is way too old, and I don't have a need to buy anything at the moment.

Heh. I had to use punch tape (!) as an undergrad in one of my labs. The uni had rather *ahem* outdated equipment; the CNC machines could only read punch tape. And no, I'm not ancient either; I suspect I'm right around Merc's age. :)

[Pradeep]

Western Digital 175GB 7200RPM Drive $100 at CompUSA.com

Update: Rebate form has a big fat "8MB Cache!" declaration.

Good amount of storage here. Get this Western Digital 175GB 7200RPM 2MB Cache Hard Drive for $200 - $100 rebate [Exp 4/28] = $100 + shipping after rebates.

From bensbargains.net

[Mercutio]

Nothing will bring back the 8(!) 600ABs I've RMAd so far this year.

[mubs]

mercutio wrote:

Forgive me, I'm still struggling with: "It was made in November of 2002, but it's not under warranty."

Isn't that illegal? How can it not be under warranty? Contact your State AG!

[jtr1962]

Are you refering to the the WD 3 platter issue for the caviar 6.4GB drive where the 2 platter drive didn't have the same issue? I lucked out, I had the 2 platter, but the drive is dead now anyways, so I guess it didn't matter. (now sitting on display in pieces on my desk at work)

Honestly, I'm not sure which since I read about the problem on SR but didn't experience it firsthand. I remember somebody(I think it was Gary H) saying that they had a whole bucket full of dead 6.4 GB WD drives of a certain model number at work. Regardless, a pattern like that is enough to make me think twice about WD. A shame too since their older Caviars seem to be built like tanks. I have a few I picked up on eBay(all under 500 MB) a while back and they seem virtually indestructible. A machine I inherited from a friend had a WD31200 that had five years of daily use on it, was used by me daily for another two years, and is still going strong.

[Mercutio]

Apparently, the warranty for my replacement drives is 90 days, mubs.

[Buck]

Forgive me, I'm still struggling with: "It was made in November of 2002, but it's not under warranty."

I would struggle with that too. What is the model number on this drive Merc, and where did you buy it? (Do you have your P.O.P?)

[Mercutio]

Drive in question is a 600BB. I don't have the model number handy, and yes, it is literally being used to keep a bunch of dead parts in a tidy pile.

It was manufactured in November 07 2002, and I received it as a replacement for a 600AB that I RMA'd in early December.
The neat trick is, I've RMA'd *8* 600ABs, and I have the 600BB I apparently can't RMA, but I only purchased. *5* 600ABs - i.e. most of my replacements have been sent in, too.

You wonder why I'm aggravated...

[blakerwry]

As far as I know the warranty on the RMA'd device is only good until the warranty from the original runs out... e.g. you buy a drive that had a 3 year warranty... 2 years in you RMA it.. the RMA drive basically continues the warranty for 1 more year.

[Mercutio]

Apparently, not in this case. The drive in question (pre-pre-RMA) was originally purchase at Sam's Club and came in a retail box, in August of 2001. It died in November, and was replaced with the 600BB. The length of warranty on the BB, I am told (by phone and WD's warranty validating-thing), was 90 days. WD's site lists the warranty on the BB as "expired".

[Howell]

The only drive I've RMAed had a warranty of 1 year or until the original warranty ran out which ever was longer. Of course this was IBM and it was before everybody changed their policies.

[Howell]

OOh. I had a bad thought. Can we confim that the other companies are not doing this too. I'd hate to think that this is part of the warranty reductions.

[mubs]

As blakerwry said, replacement drives should have a warranty that finishes the warranty of the first one you bought. If not, SUE! I'm not a lawyer and don't care for them, but fair's fair, eh?

This here below is surely old hat, but bears repeating nonetheless.


In the beginning was the plan and then came the assumptions and the assumptions were without form and the plan was without substance and darkness was upon the face of the workers and they spoke amongst themselves saying "It is a crock of sh*t, and it stinketh".

And the workers went to their supervisors and said "It is a pail of dung and none can stand the odour that rises from it".

And the supervisors went unto the managers and said "It is a container of excrement and it is very strong, such that none can come near".

And the managers went to their directors saying "It is a vessel of fertiliser and none can stand its strength".

And the directors spoke among themselves saying to one another "It contains that which aids plant growth and it is very strong".

And the directors went unto the vice-presidents and said "It promotes growth and is very powerful".

And the vice-presidents went to the President and said to him "This new plan will actively promote the growth and efficiency of this company".

And the President looked on the plan and saw that it was good, and the plan became policy.

[P5-133XL]

I know Maxtor has had the same policy for years; Refurbished drives get 90 days regardless of the length of the original warrentee. I don't keep up of warrentee policies, in general, but I was burned by that particular policy a few years ago by Maxtor.

[mubs]

I can't believe that's legal. Why hasn't anything been done about it???

[CityK]

I had wondered about this too. But with my recent Maxtor RMA, the brand new drive they sent (after I RMA'd the RMA) showed up with one year warrenty - or so says their website warrenty check.

CK

[blakerwry]

I can't believe that's legal. Why hasn't anything been done about it???

I don't see how that's legal at all!

I'm no longer buying WD or maxtor drives, period.

I'm sticking with seagate and IBM, and I'm considering Samsung as a serious option as well.

[P5-133XL]

Mubs,

I am not a person that lightly sues. It costs too much, unless the issue is a matter of principal or has a value far larger than a drive. I also have no desire to create a class-action suit: Things like that have a tendancy to occupy ones life for years and thereby rarely worth it to the individual that sues even if thousands of other people are helped.

As an example was the lawsuit for under-measuring the size of video screens. After lears of litigation the prize at the end was a coupon for 25% off the next monitor purchased (With lots of other conditions). Think of the person that started the lawsuit and spent years dealing with lawyers winning that class-action suit. All he gets is the same as everyone else (He is just a member of the class). The lawyers however, get rich, the loser gets a little poorer and the individual gets virtually nothing for all his/her efforts. In my mind it needs to be worth the individual's efforts too before I'm (and I'm sure others) am willing to start a class-action lawsuit like this.

Blakerwry,

If the reason for limiting the manufacturer's of your HD buying is the warrentee issues regarding refurbished drives, I strongly suggest that you call the manufacturers tech support lines and find out their policies regarding replacement/refurbished drives. I didn't know about the policy untill after I had to return a return. This type of policy may differ from manufacturer to manufacturer and thus worth the phone call to each one. You do yourself a disservice by boycotting some drive manufacturers based on the policy if others/all that you do not boycott do the same thing.

Also note that warrentee policies like what we are describing can change on a manufacturers whim. So that even if I had a problem several years ago with Maxtor, it does not necessarily follow that they have the same policy now. With that in mind, include Maxtor in the same set of phone calls as above, just to make sure that they have not changed the policy between when I delt with the issue and now.

CityK,

I note that in your situation they sent you a brand new drive instead of a refurbished unit. New drives are commonly treated differently than refurbished drives. So, I'm not surprised that the warrenty check said one year.

[blakerwry]

i know IBM doesn't do the limited warranty on replacements..


I've heard newegg does have a limited warranty. e.g. you can get the one you bought replaced within the warranty period( i think it's 30 days)
But the replacement is not covered by any newegg warranty at all (even if the original item would still be covered)


I've never had to RMA a seagate or WD drive and I've never owned a Maxtor branded drive. I was thinking of RMA'ing my noisy 800JB, but I don't think I should considering what I get in return might not be as good as what I'm giving up(esp with this warranty crap).

[blakerwry]

i know IBM doesn't do the limited warranty on replacements..


I've heard newegg does have a limited warranty. e.g. you can get the one you bought replaced within the warranty period( i think it's 30 days)
But the replacement is not covered by any newegg warranty at all (even if the original item would still be covered)


I've never had to RMA a seagate or WD drive and I've never owned a Maxtor branded drive. I was thinking of RMA'ing my noisy 800JB, but I don't think I should considering what I get in return might not be as good as what I'm giving up(esp with this warranty crap).

well... i guess I have had to RMA 2 WD 1000JB's.. but it was to the retailer (www.mwave.com). They were both DOA and they were both mwave's fault. I'm glad they don't have the same policy as newegg when it comes to warranty replacements.

[Buck]

It was manufactured in November 07 2002, and I received it as a replacement for a 600AB that I RMA'd in early December.
The neat trick is, I've RMA'd *8* 600ABs, and I have the 600BB I apparently can't RMA, but I only purchased. *5* 600ABs - i.e. most of my replacements have been sent in, too.

You wonder why I'm aggravated...

That WD600BB carries the warranty of the WD600AB or 90-days, which ever is greater. The warranty for the WD600AB started on its manufacture date, or if you have available, the POP for that original drive. The key is to know if that original drive was a 1-year or 3-year warranty product.

[mubs]

Mark,

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not sue-happy either (my significant other's name is something else :D ). I've never sued, even when I had sufficient cause and could clearly win a judgement.

Your point about the individual having to go through hell without much benefit, and the liyars (that's what I call them) raking in all the moolah are absolutely right on. But in my eyes, the product sent by the mfr. in exchange for an RMA should have the remaining warranty of the originally purchased product. This is straightforward, logical, and definitely a matter of principle. Otherwise mfrs. would screw their customers with impunity. True, in the long run customers would abandon that mfr., but what about the customers who got screwed until then? $300 may mean nothing to a mfr., but it is a significant sum of money to me.

Calling to ask about warranty is a waste of time. Somewhere they will have a clause that says oral promises cannot be enforced. If it is important to you, it should be in writing (product box, or warranty phamplet inside, etc.) Call and ask for a copy of their warranty. I believe they are obliged to provide this when a request is made.

Samsung looks more and more attractive with the passage of time.

[Mercutio]

That WD600BB carries the warranty of the WD600AB or 90-days, which ever is greater. The warranty for the WD600AB started on its manufacture date, or if you have available, the POP for that original drive. The key is to know if that original drive was a 1-year or 3-year warranty product.

This is in direct contradiction to what I was told by WD Customer Service, in the particular case of my drive. Talked to a rep, talked to a manager. If I really cared I'd go a couple steps higher and try again, but frankly, having RMA'd some of those drives TWICE, I don't really want the replacement they'd give me, and I'm sure the cash value of the drive is at this point low enough that it's not worth the effort.

I'm keeping the drive in case I ever need to do a PCB swap, but that's the end of my involvement at this point.

Samsung drives may be slow but Tannin seems to be right that they just keep working.

[Jan Kivar]

I talked on the phone with an IBM support person two years ago when my 75GXP broke the first time. He said that the warranty period of the replacement drive is 90 days, or the remaining warranty time, depending which one is longer. (longer being the warranty time...)

I don't think this has changed. This is not the case with OEM drives though. I mean the ones You have in those Dell etc. computers. Dell offers the warranty, so You must do the RMA with Dell, not with the manufacturer. Maybe the drive Merc has is one of these OEM oddballs?

Cheers,

Jan

[Mercutio]

Jan,


Apparently, not in this case. The drive in question (pre-pre-RMA) was originally purchased at Sam's Club and came in a retail box, in August of 2001.

The drive that started this was not OEM.

[CityK]

I note that in your situation they sent you a brand new drive instead of a refurbished unit. New drives are commonly treated differently than refurbished drives. So, I'm not surprised that the warrenty check said one year....the warrenty web check yes, but I'm still a little suspicious about what the case would be if this drive should break and I call in for a RMA for it (i.e. is there any fine print I'm missing somewhere).

I guess that this thread, as its been transformed into, goes to show that Caveat Emptor is still in effect. Damn Roman's! I blame them for our RMA troubles today.

CK

[Buck]

This is in direct contradiction to what I was told by WD Customer Service, in the particular case of my drive. Talked to a rep, talked to a manager.

It is possible that they were wrong. :)

[blakerwry]

Blakerwry,

If the reason for limiting the manufacturer's of your HD buying is the warrentee issues regarding refurbished drives, I strongly suggest that you call the manufacturers tech support lines and find out their policies regarding replacement/refurbished drives. I didn't know about the policy untill after I had to return a return. This type of policy may differ from manufacturer to manufacturer and thus worth the phone call to each one. You do yourself a disservice by boycotting some drive manufacturers based on the policy if others/all that you do not boycott do the same thing.

Also note that warrentee policies like what we are describing can change on a manufacturers whim. So that even if I had a problem several years ago with Maxtor, it does not necessarily follow that they have the same policy now. With that in mind, include Maxtor in the same set of phone calls as above, just to make sure that they have not changed the policy between when I delt with the issue and now.




After dealing with Guillmot and spending $25 to RMA a tnt2 (i didnt realize the phone call was international) that they just sent back to me without fixing and after dealing with linksys refusing to honor their warranty at all I really am not up to taking any more crap.


IBM has fully honored their warranties and I will stick by them. From what I hear Seagate does the same and doesn't have any current or recent past "ghosts" haunting them. So I will stick with them as well. Since a few of you guys are having good luck with Samsung I wouldn't mind helping to contribute to their conglomoration.

[Jan Kivar]

Jan,


Apparently, not in this case. The drive in question (pre-pre-RMA) was originally purchased at Sam's Club and came in a retail box, in August of 2001.

The drive that started this was not OEM.

Sorry about that Merc. I think that I missed that one... :oops:

Did some digging at SR... This (http://forums.storagereview.net/index.php?act=ST&f=2&t=8545&s=7897e5fb19a7b21dd272449215aabd84) is what I found.

Cheers,

Jan

[blakerwry]

yeah, I've heard of similar problems with maxtor warranty lengths. I think Merc even made a post or 2 about it.


This is one of the reasons I've never bought a maxtor drive, the other being that some were terribly slow while others of the same capacty/model line were fast (this was back when 8-20GB drives ruled) and that I've always heard they were not as reliable as competing drives from IBM, seagate, or quantum.

[Mercutio]

Wasn't me complaining about Maxtor, it was MARK.

I've never had a Maxtor drive fail, and the only time I've used their warranty service was for a dead quantum AS. I had one arrive DOA, but that went back to the vendor. Maxtor drives are perfectly reliable as far as I'm concerned.

I would, however, like to say that I may have an iffy 740X right now, but that might also be a slightly overloaded PSU.

[P5-133XL]

My return rate for Maxtor's and WD drives have always been acceptable. I have always found that Maxtor drives are rarely the fastest, but they will be close and in the past were signifigently cheaper than most other drives. Maxtor's warrentee policies tend to be similar (or better) than everyone elses: They really were the first amoung the major Manufacturers to produce a no quibble (no questions asked) warrentee return policy. Even though burned once by Maxtor a few years ago concerning the warrentee of refurbished drives, I really am not Anti-Maxtor: I really have no problem buying and using Maxtor or WD drives.

My purpose in my original post was to inform that WD was not the only company (Maxtor too did the same) that gave shortened warrentees to refurbished (returned/RMA) drives. I was not condemming Maxtor but rather trying diminish the comdemnation against WD by pointing out that another company had similar policies. I really don't think the policies are reasonable, but I think they are the standard of the industry and thus to single out one company is unfair. I found that dealing with Seagate or IBM on warrentee service to be signifigently harder than WD or Maxtor.

[CougTek]

Biggest thread ever in the FS&T forum. Somehow, I knew the title would generate a lot of attention :-)

A replacement should be guaranteed for as long as the original's unit warranty period. Anything less, no matter what the replacement is (a brand new drive or a refurbished unit) is totally unaceptable and even fraudulous. I would never accept it...and never did.

[blakerwry]

My return rate for Maxtor's and WD drives have always been acceptable. I have always found that Maxtor drives are rarely the fastest, but they will be close and in the past were signifigently cheaper than most other drives. Maxtor's warrentee policies tend to be similar (or better) than everyone elses: They really were the first amoung the major Manufacturers to produce a no quibble (no questions asked) warrentee return policy. Even though burned once by Maxtor a few years ago concerning the warrentee of refurbished drives, I really am not Anti-Maxtor: I really have no problem buying and using Maxtor or WD drives.

My purpose in my original post was to inform that WD was not the only company (Maxtor too did the same) that gave shortened warrentees to refurbished (returned/RMA) drives. I was not condemming Maxtor but rather trying diminish the comdemnation against WD by pointing out that another company had similar policies. I really don't think the policies are reasonable, but I think they are the standard of the industry and thus to single out one company is unfair. I found that dealing with Seagate or IBM on warrentee service to be signifigently harder than WD or Maxtor.

This is the 1st time that I have heard about a different warranty on the replacement product for something like a HDD.. or maybe anything.

I think that's why it's generated so much attention. It's not acceptable to most of us.

Mark, you may be right that Maxtor had the 1st no quibble HDD RMA service(i don't have that kind of experience), but for what it's worth IBM/Hitachi has had it for a while and I've heard seagate is just as good

Example: they will exchange your ATA IV for one with the "raid" firmware.. this to me seems almost rediculous.



I do remember seeing a thread on SR about a new maxtor drive not being able to be returned even when the drive itself showed that it had bad sectors. That's just dumb.

[Mercutio]

I've heard, anecdotally, of Maxtor exchanging ball-bearing 740Xs for FDB; literally just because someone didn't like the pitch of the noise their drive was making. This was precrash at SR.

Don't know if that's true, but it's a far cry from "won't replace because of bad sectors".