Tech downturn

[Mercutio]

A depressing news story (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-832615.html).

Reading things like this is what makes me want to get out of the computer business.

[i]

I know what you mean. That was the article from Slashdot this morning, wasn't it? I must confess I didn't look too closely at it when it was posted - I assumed it would just be depressing stuff and read the discussion instead.

I've only just finished the requirements for my BA in Geography (last month). The work experience I have has been primarily computer hardware/software technical support and VB/C++ coding. I have no "professional" certification or degree behind that stuff. It was how I worked and paid my way through university. Consequently it took me 8 years to get a 3 year degree, but as of right now, I have no debt. I'll be 27 this year.

I feel like I'm trapped. I don't feel like I have a chance for finding a career related to my degree (because I didn't focus on the marketable GIS or physical geography areas), and I don't feel like I have a chance for finding a career related to my work experience (given how things are right now in the tech job market). But then, like you Mercutio, I'm not sure I'm interested in the high-tech world anymore anyway.

Blarg.

[Mercutio]

Yes, from slashdot. I was making gurgling noises as I read the responses...

Small world. I did some GIS work in the late nineties for the City of Chicago. Mostly my job was... weird; I was doing a small amount of custom development work for their high-end Oracle-based system, while supporting the people who actually understood what the GIS package did but couldn't otherwise manage their PCs (If you're into the GIS stuff, our system was for mapping the sewer system... there were some interesting high-resolution satellite photos with transparencies detailing the sewers in various parts of the city hanging on the walls).
Of course, working for the City of Chicago was hilarious anyway. Come it at nine, leave at two, and the office was maybe 100 yards from the lake.

This isn't what you want to hear, but I've had my CompSci degree for five years, an armful of IT certs (MCSE NT4 and 2000, A+, CCNA, MOUS etc), and I've never had any job for longer than six months. I whine about this fact regularly. Much as I like working for myself I'd far, far rather have income I can count on. I'd cough up a kidney to work for even a few years someplace where I can do network or system administration. It ain't gonna happen, though.

[HellDiver]

I've never had any job for longer than six months...
Well, being the prick you are - small wonder! ;)

P.S. Just kidding, of course, Mercutio!!!

P.P.S. But you know, they say that in every joke there's a grain of truth... ;)

P.P.P.S. But not in the joke above!!!

P.P.P.P.S. ...hmmm... though come think of it... ;)

[HellDiver]

No hard feelings, right, Merc?

[Mercutio]

Eh. Either way.

I do good work and I've never been fired or ended a job early; whether or not people like me or not doesn't mean as much to me as that fact. I'm not exactly an extroverted person.

... point of fact, I don't mind being a prick, either, so long as I'm a big prick.

[HellDiver]

whether or not people like me or not doesn't mean as much to me
Well, of course not! But it may mean just as much to them... Having an emplyee that ends up being arrested for breaking someone's (possibly his fellow employee!) nose twice a week and grabs secretaries butts all day long may turn out to be a bit too difficult for a company... In fact - more difficult than to fire him and find someone just as good professionally-wise... Don't you think? ;)

[bahngeist]

The article was an interesting read, but I don't feel particularly sympathetic (empathetic possibly) for the people mentioned. They rode a wave during the boom times that normally would have been beyond their reach, and now life's little downturns has humbled them. Well, tough: they now have the opportunity to develop humility, perseverence, and perhaps a proper appreciation for their past (and future) good fortune.

I do, however, feel for Mercutio's extended career development frustrations -- particularly since I've gone through analagous situations.

For instance: I completed my MLIS just as the '91 recession hit, and remained unemployed for 15 months; and then after a nine month contract position, was out of work again completely for another 15 months. In both instances I would have taken anything, but despite a full-time job search couldn't even land a job as a dishwasher or security guard.

At least the persons mentioned in the article have jobs that provide a living wage. It would be interesting to see them having to cope with having to live on the equivalent of $394 CDN a month (approx. $248 U.S.) as I did. Poverty is a relative thing, however: in most other parts of the world that income would be quite decent -- and I had access to a universal health care system.

And so, I apologise for the rant; I just happened to find the attitudes expressed in the article to be a 'touch' annoying at times.

[Mercutio]

Unbelievable.

Last year I had a total of five interviews for full-time jobs.
Since last Friday I've had four calls requesting interviews. Not all for jobs I'd particularly like... all cold-calls, in fact. Really disgusting - I didn't send anyone my resume or anything, these people all just found it.

One of the jobs is as a trainer (MCSE/A+ IT certs), only part time. Pay is decent, though. The others are all some variant on tech/jr. sysadmin, but the two interviews I've been on so far, the interviews were almost cattle-call (ten minute interviews in one case, five simultaneous interviews in another). Didn't like how either was handled.

[timwhit]

So, did you get a job?

[Mercutio]

No. I got a bunch of interviews. But that's something. A reason to iron clothing, if nothing else. :)

[CougTek]

You should take the part time job if it allows you to live from it. You would have more free time to do other things, like posting here :-) .

[Mercutio]

Interviewed for the trainer job today. Small company. They were impressed that I (a techie) bothered to pick up a MOUS cert, but hung up on the fact that I don't have Network+ or Certified Internet Webmaster (although I do have a CCNA and MCP+Sitebuilding)... and I'll have some really nasty things to say if they're going to be picky about my having a different $1000 worth of testing than the ones they've been teaching.

One more to go. Enbridge. Their office is like three minutes from my apartment.

[Buck]

Mercutio,

I wish you success. It is a shame when interviewers rely only on certifications and not on qualifications. They should understand that the mix of certifications and experience that you have make you perfect for the job. :)

BR

[Tea]

The trainer job sounds good for you, Mercutio. Part time leaves you free to do other things with your life, decent money, and I think you would make an excellent teacher: good grasp of theory, plenty of hands-on practical experience to back it up, straightforward expression, and a good listener. If they don't hire you, they are nuts.

Best of luck with it!

[Buck]

Yer a smart man Mercutio, yo' sh'd haf no problem obtainin' thet job. Well bust mah britches an' call me streaker. - compliments of the Dialectizer

[Mercutio]

Really liked my last interview. One on one, with a techie (one who had at least heard of SR, even <G>) and no HR reps at all. Got a full hour's time. We spent about three minutes talking about the job and the rest of the time just talking shop. I'd be working independently, suppporting remote sites, and, like I said before... this place is two minutes from my apartment. I'm one of only four candidates. Man, I hope I get that job. Otherwise it's time to schedule an MCAT exam.

[Mercutio]

Oh, yeah.

Thanks everybody!

[Mercutio]

Well, I just got an offer from the training place... pending completion of Network+ certification, to be completed immediately. I told them I need to wait on the other firms and, uh, to actually find out what the heck the Network+ cert is, so hopefully by Tuesday or Wednesday I'll know whether or not I'll be looking at a permanent, steady income.

[Buck]

Congrats Mercutio, won't be long now and you'll be permanent.

BR

[timwhit]

Mercutio, where is the place that offered you the job? I might have seen it...I was over in Griffith a lot last because I did a lot of work for a company, Track Services if you have heard of it.

[timwhit]

that should be last summer.

[Mercutio]

The place that offered me a job is over in Chesterton, a little three-classroom training company that gets its business fulfilling the training requirements in steelworker's union contracts. I have to take the Network+ exam tomorrow for them...
Anyway, I told those people I'd take their offer. When the places you interview at don't return your calls, you know it's not a good sign. Too bad. I really wanted that last job. Best thing I've seen in a long time. Very good wage, benefits and a company vehicle.. sigh.

Oh well. My first job will be teaching the A+ exams. I've never taught a group before. That'll probably be something fun to talk about. The exams themselves are pathetic... You need only a 45% on either test to pass. I'd feel bad if someone I taught didn't pass.

Wheee... I sort-of have a job.

[Handruin]

The place that offered me a job is over in Chesterton, a little three-classroom training company that gets its business fulfilling the training requirements in steelworker's union contracts. I have to take the Network+ exam tomorrow for them...
Anyway, I told those people I'd take their offer. When the places you interview at don't return your calls, you know it's not a good sign. Too bad. I really wanted that last job. Best thing I've seen in a long time. Very good wage, benefits and a company vehicle.. sigh.

Oh well. My first job will be teaching the A+ exams. I've never taught a group before. That'll probably be something fun to talk about. The exams themselves are pathetic... You need only a 45% on either test to pass. I'd feel bad if someone I taught didn't pass.

Wheee... I sort-of have a job.


Congrats on the job!!! Too bad it's not the one you wanted, but in due time something even better may turn up, you never know.

I'm curious to hear about your adventures in teaching! :D

-Doug

[CougTek]

The exams themselves are pathetic... You need only a 45% on either test to pass. I'd feel bad if someone I taught didn't pass.

Never underestimated people's stupidity.

Congrats for the job, even if it's not the one you wanted the most.

[Prof.Wizard]

Congratulations Mercutio.

And it's really very good you got a job near your house. Believe me: living the traffic of Rome every day... <sigh>... I know what means to have your work near...

[Mercutio]

Well, the Network+ exam represented roughly the most relaxing eight minutes of testing in my life. So I have a sort-of-a job now, thereby giving me something to do three days a week and a steady paycheck.

Yay rah paycheck!

Now I have a whole pile of books about the A+ and N+ exams that I have to sort through to develop a coherent syllabus... and eight days to do it. This should be fun.

[Cliptin]

Congrats! I had come up with the perfect job for you today at lunch.

Middle school band director!

I think they get steady paychecks! :mrgrn:

[Mercutio]

I'm lacking in the Sousa-fetish department. That, and I hate kids. Seriously hate.

[Handruin]

I'm lacking in the Sousa-fetish department. That, and I hate kids. Seriously hate.


Middle school is where I started in music, don't knock it. ;)

[Mercutio]

Middle school teachers have my respect and admiration. Personally I think anyone below about 17 years old should be kept chained, in small cage. Like veal.

[Handruin]

Middle school teachers have my respect and admiration. Personally I think anyone below about 17 years old should be kept chained, in small cage. Like veal.


:D haha, that's a riot!

[Mercutio]

I really wish I was kidding, but I'm not. Don't ask me about reproduction or children. My opinions aren't pretty.


But I'd rather direct a choir than a band.

[Cliptin]

I'm lacking in the Sousa-fetish department. That, and I hate kids. Seriously hate.


Awww, Who says you're anti-social. I visited my old high school today for an alumni lunch and visited the new middle school. I saw ~15 middle schoolers warming up. Granted I only heard two notes but the ratio of brass to woodwinds was very low. I just don't think Sousa would sound right on a bassoon. It was not a marching band.

BTW, the only musical instument I learned in high school was handbells.

[Mercutio]

Introvert? Moi?
Just 'cause I got 0-score on Extrovert-scale of the Keirsey Temperament sorter (http://keirsey.com/)...

I'm an INTP (http://keirsey.com/personality/ntip.html), if anyone cares (or takes the test).

[i]

I don't know if the rest of you are still seeing the effects of a "tech downturn", but I need the opportunity to complain (briefly) about it:

This sucks.

Since my first post in this discussion 5 months ago, I've been sending out at least 2 job applications per week. If that seems low it's because I take the time to research the company, and then write a cover letter specifically for the firm to which I'm applying. With some money still saved away, the pressure to go for volume instead of quality hasn't been there. Anyway, after including a good resume and sending the application off, one of two things happens:

A) I get an automated response saying they received my application, and that someone (or something) will look it over. I'll never hear anything from them beyond that.
B) I get an automated response saying they received my application, and that someone (or something) will look it over. I'll never hear anything from them beyond that. And then about 3 weeks later, I'll see the exact same job posted again. How badly should I take that?

Or maybe I should give up looking for a decent job, learn Spanish, and get a job at Burger King?

[Cliptin]

I have been unimployed since November. I find very short term projects to work on through friends and friends of friends but nothing more than a week.

The only advice I have for you is to not wait until you burn through your savings to go on unimployment, like I did.

[Mercutio]

My teaching job really stabilized my working life. It took a lot of pressure off me to find something once I knew I could cover rent and food. I still get my other jobs, too, fortunately, but I honestly haven't had a new client in about six months; mostly it's been maintenence on things I did in the past.

For the rest, man, I don't see things getting any easier. I have tons of experience, a degree and a whole bunch of professional qualifications and I've really gotten nothing. I can't even imagine what it takes to get a foot in the door right now.

Er, not that I ever could.

Maybe we should all pack it in and get grad degrees or something. :)

[Cliptin]

Maybe we should all pack it in and get grad degrees or something. :)

Oh, it's in the cards.

[Buck]

I like the Bartender's job. Tending bar seems easy enough.

[Mercutio]

MBA or something technical, Cliptin?

Part of me would just love to go off and spend a couple years getting some kind of fine arts degree right now, just because it'd be literally the least practical and probably the most fun thing I could spend a couple years doing. I'd really like to take a little time and GOOF OFF.

[Bartender]

I like the Bartender's job. Tending bar seems easy enough.

Sorry Buck, you can't drink on the job. We'll put you out in the field so that you plant grow all of the grains that we need for fermenting our favorite beverages. Barley and corn should be high on your list (considering what you drink), wheat and potatoes should be next. I think we'll put Mercutio in charge of ladies processing the grains. i, you've got the grapes and the winery, Cliptin, you take the Beer brewing process (just don't get Buck mad if he falls behind during harvest time). We'll get Tea to grow and harvest the hops, she'll need all of her agility to climb the ropes. We'll have to sort out the rest later.

[Pradeep]

Hmm, must have missed this thread the first time. For a man with a CCNA, Network + would have been a piece of piss :D

Good to hear you have a stable income now.

[Mercutio]

Yeah, 'cause you know about all those entry-level router/switch configuration jobs there are out there...

One thing I'll say about CompTIA: their exams aren't that tough when you have experience, but for someone without, they're absolutely daunting.

[Cliptin]

MBA or something technical, Cliptin?

Part of me would just love to go off and spend a couple years getting some kind of fine arts degree right now, just because it'd be literally the least practical and probably the most fun thing I could spend a couple years doing. I'd really like to take a little time and GOOF OFF.

MBA, It's part of my plan to move into a CIO position. :D

[time]

In this article (http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,4753907%255E15306,00.html) a headhunter claims the situation is the worst for 24 years. :cry: